Guest: Jonny Fish, Co-founder of SideKick

Interviewed by: Nianqing, ChainCatcher

Since last year, the attention economy represented by Memecoin has become a new consensus in the crypto market. In this new consensus, asset producers represented by Pump.fun and asset consumers represented by the P group have emerged.

Efficiently capturing trading hotspots and accelerating transaction speed have become the evolutionary goals for distributors such as exchanges and trading bots. The crypto trading cycle is gradually shortening, leading to the emergence of new forms like "live trading"—the LiveFi trading platform created by SideKick is about to launch.

Sidekick is a decentralized live trading platform where users can participate in crypto asset trading in real-time through live broadcasts by hosts. Last year, Sidekick was recognized as one of the best graduation projects in the seventh season of the Most Valuable Builder (MVB) program on the BNB Chain and received investment from YZi Labs.

Additionally, Sidekick has secured millions of dollars in funding from institutions and angel investors such as Hashkey Capital, Folius Ventures, Mirana Ventures, and Foresight Ventures. In February of this year, Sidekick also established a strategic partnership with Trovo.live, the largest live streaming platform in Eastern Europe.

Recently, ChainCatcher interviewed Jonny Fish, co-founder of Sidekick. Jonny mentioned that Sidekick has transformed from the traditional live streaming and gaming industry, accumulating years of experience in technology, host resources, and expansion channels. Earlier, the team wanted to pivot to Web3 for live streaming but felt the timing was not yet right. Last year, platforms like Pump.fun launched a "content factory," enabling countless individuals to become producers of content, coupled with the growth of the P group, which allowed SideKick to sense the opportunity to match supply and demand.

What is the strength of Sidekick's "live trading"? How can live streaming enhance user trading experiences? And how does it match and coordinate the needs of project parties, content producers, and ordinary users to generate profits through SideKick?

Here is the full dialogue:

ChainCatcher: Your introduction on X is quite interesting. Why do you describe yourself as Sidekick's "Chief Joke Officer"? Please briefly introduce your personal experience.

Jonny Fish: Compared to titles like CEO or CTO, I believe that as a founder of a company, my greatest contribution should be to output content and value, making it clear to the team what our goals and directions are. In the live streaming space, drama and tension are core elements, and I consider myself somewhat "abstract," willing to play a role that brings dramatic effects, so I gave myself the title of "Chief Joke Officer" as a form of self-deprecation.

I mainly worked in the traditional internet industry in the past. Early on, I was at Wangyu Internet Cafe, the largest chain of internet cafes in China, which also owns a company called Bixin. I obtained the European general agency rights at Wangyu, responsible for the overseas design of internet cafes and gaming services, accumulating a lot of experience in the internet and live streaming ecosystem. Due to long-term exposure to internet cafes and gaming communities, I also have a deep understanding of gamers' needs and behaviors. Later, we tried to expand the gaming service globally, initially making good progress in the European market by leveraging low-cost host resources in Eastern Europe to serve Western European gamers and gain profit margins.

Initially, we didn't plan to enter the Web3 business. The turning point came after the outbreak of the Russia-Ukraine war when the EU imposed restrictions on fiat currency channels in Eastern Europe, cutting off payment channels from Western to Eastern Europe. This impacted many gaming and internet companies, and at that moment, we saw an opportunity and decided to create a SaaS system to address payment needs and content output revenue needs, with the payment function completed through crypto.

This became the first version of Sidekick, a companion system designed for content creators. This system helps hosts solve payment issues, allowing them to receive payments quickly during live broadcasts, while also supporting online companionship, gift giving, and other functions to meet different community needs. The project developed rapidly, with monthly revenue exceeding $10 million at one point last year.

After the political situation eased with Trump's election, we realized we needed to plan ahead and ultimately decided to pivot to the live streaming space. At that time, we had already signed contracts with the largest MCN company in Eastern Europe, with over 100,000 hosts, and fan bases ranging from tens of thousands to millions. Based on these resources, we began to focus on the live streaming business.

ChainCatcher: Please summarize the core functions and target users of Sidekick in a few sentences, so everyone can quickly understand what you are doing.

Jonny Fish: If I had to summarize it in one sentence, Sidekick aims to create LiveFi, which means "Trade the moment." Conduct transactions in the present, capture real-time trading hotspots and communicate efficiently through live streaming.

Last year, there was a clear trend with the massive emergence of the P group, which had not formed a scale in previous cycles. This group's rejection of mainstream VC coins and pursuit of Memecoins led to the launch of products like Pump.fun. Internally, we have always felt that if there were no products like Pump.fun in the market today, then the product form of live streaming would not exist as it does now.

The reason is simple. We can divide the market into three roles: producers, distributors, and buyers. Pump.fun is like the producer in the crypto space, and we can consider CA (contract address) as the product. The P group, as buyers, hopes to profit quickly through high-frequency trading but faces issues of information asymmetry and limited time and energy. They need to search for potentially valuable CAs among thousands, which requires extensive research.

A classic saying goes, mismatch is opportunity. When a mismatch occurs in an industry, the opportunity has already emerged. The first wave of the trend was the emergence of chain-sweeping bots, followed by the appearance of data panels on platforms like GMGN, smart money following functions, and KOL wallets. But these functions essentially serve as endorsements. For example, when CZ says something, a meme can become a hot topic. It's similar to how Li Jiaqi promotes products; the brand being promoted is less important than Li Jiaqi himself. Because having a person as an endorsement often has a stronger impact than using an anonymous address.

SideKick seized this opportunity, where buyers need to quickly obtain hotspot information, while the existing methods of information collection remain inefficient and lack strong endorsements. Through live streaming, hosts can scan chains in real-time, analyze K-lines, recommend trading points, and interact directly with users, shortening information transmission time and enhancing trust. Compared to traditional WeChat groups or Twitter Spaces, live streaming allows users to visually see the host's actions and recommendations, forming an efficient trading model of "hosts leading, users following."

In high-frequency trading, emotional feedback and transaction speed are crucial. The live streaming model allows the P group to make decisions within a trading window of five minutes or even shorter. Even if the market is not favorable, the host can quickly shout, "Brothers, run!" and everyone can retreat together. In this scenario, the host and users become part of the same camp rather than opponents, creating a stronger relationship, and the resources and funds that the host can mobilize become more efficient.

Thus, we believe that "Trade the moment" is the direction of trading development, and in this context, a direct communication medium is needed, which can only be achieved through live streaming to achieve such high efficiency.

ChainCatcher: So based on these thoughts, Sidekick began to transition to the Sidekick Protocol?

Jonny Fish: When we decided to pivot from our original track to the "Protocol + LiveFi" concept, it was based on the judgment that, for the foreseeable future, at least this year, users would pay more attention to the promotional capabilities and hype of tokens.

We observed that there is a flow of traffic dissemination: first, the project CA is released, spreading from platforms like Telegram or Discord; then it enters various TG groups, WeChat groups, and other communities; next, it attracts users to buy in with small wallets through KOL recommendations; after that, it enters the public traffic pool on Twitter to distribute information; finally, it reaches the trading market. How to embed into this flow and achieve goals is crucial. I believe the core lies in endorsements. The essence of a CA is endorsement—as long as there is enough trust, users will believe the project can succeed. Therefore, our pivot logic is to enhance trust through live streaming, accelerate dissemination, and capture market sentiment.

ChainCatcher: You mentioned earlier why you chose live streaming as a format, but it seems that mainstream users in the crypto circle are still mainly stuck in the reading era, whether it's media or KOLs outputting through text. What are your thoughts on this?

Jonny Fish: I think people are not accustomed to reading text, but currently, they only have this option. For example, before 2016, everyone only used Weibo because there were no platforms like Xiaohongshu or Douyin. When the era only provides one choice, people subconsciously think this is the only option and even feel they have adapted to it. But this is actually a reflection of human laziness.

Tweets are presented in a "2D" format through text. Whether it's KOLs making calls or publishing articles, users engage in rational thinking while reading, and everyone has their own perspective and judgment. In this case, marketing efficiency can be reduced due to subjective differences among users, resulting in significant losses. Video content, on the other hand, does not require users to think deeply; they can watch easily—if they don't like it, they treat it as entertainment, and if they do, they may buy directly. Video output has a higher capacity for content and emotional engagement, and its presentation is "3D," offering a stronger sense of space and inclusiveness.

This also relates to the commercial value of KOLs. Text-based KOLs are limited by the 2D model, producing single and hard-to-expand outputs. For example, an article may only serve one platform, and to protect their own value, KOLs will raise their quotes. While this raises prices, the actual monetization ability is limited. In contrast, video KOLs can enhance monetization by featuring multiple brand logos. For instance, when outputting content, they can display a long-term sponsor's logo in the background without needing to mention it every time, simply through exposure to generate revenue. This model is more attractive to advertisers because it is lower in cost and has a longer-lasting effect.

For project parties, they hope to achieve the highest return at the lowest cost, such as bringing more exposure or even larger buying volumes. Compared to reading text, video has stronger inclusiveness, allowing KOLs to continuously feature advertisements in a series of videos, significantly enhancing revenue capacity. Therefore, our goal is to enhance the commercial value of all KOLs, enabling them to take on more advertising orders and earn more money.

If relying solely on text, KOLs frequently promoting projects may be seen as "spam ads," losing attention. However, through high-quality video content, combined with naturally integrated sponsor logos, users are more accepting because the focus is on the content itself rather than the advertisement.

ChainCatcher: Sidekick actually targets three groups: Sidekickers (ordinary users) as attention consumers, Kickers (hosts) as attention producers, and affiliate partners as traffic providers. How can these three groups generate profits through Sidekick products?

Jonny Fish: First, for hosts (Kickers). Hosts play the role of distributors on the platform and primarily benefit in three ways: first, through transaction fee commissions, where they can earn a share from facilitated transactions; second, through gift rewards, where users can bring additional income through tipping; third, through creator incentives, where we initially provided airdrop rewards for platform hosts—the longer the live broadcast and the closer the content is to hot topics, the more they earn. This encourages hosts to share profits with the platform.

Next, for ordinary users (Sidekickers). The core purpose for users is to make money through trading, which is their most direct source of income. Additionally, live streams will host airdrop activities, where users can participate to gain extra rewards, increasing interactive income.

Finally, for project parties or distributors. Project parties pursue two aspects of revenue on the platform: first, increasing exposure, as they hope to enhance project hype and attention through live streaming; second, through hosts promoting products, project parties can act as advertisers or recommend products to hosts for promotion and sales.

ChainCatcher: You previously mentioned that SideKick has accumulated many traditional gaming players. After the transition, is the focus mainly on Crypto users, or is it a multi-category development?

Jonny Fish: Our product has developed in several stages.

In the first stage, we focused on users within the crypto circle. Since SideKick is fundamentally a live streaming platform built on trading, the initial goal was to make crypto users aware that they could participate in trading models through live streaming, experience gameplay, see more quality content, tradable modules, and more hosts. This is our first step.

The second stage is expansion, introducing entertainment hosts. Here, it's important to distinguish that entertainment hosts are not necessarily gaming hosts. The characteristic of entertainment hosts is to provide joy and drama rather than strong guidance or professional trading opinions. Their expertise may be more reflected in entertainment effects rather than trading analysis. This stage will bring significant growth in user groups.

The third stage is to expand into different industries. As a live streaming platform, if we initially positioned ourselves solely in gaming live streaming, the chances of success would be very low. Competing with established gaming live streaming platforms like YouTube, Huya, and Douyu is extremely challenging—they have natural barriers such as gaming IP copyrights and event resources that limit the development of newcomers. Instead, we chose a crypto-native live streaming model and bound it with trading.

ChainCatcher: What milestone events are worth mentioning for SideKick?

Jonny Fish: There are actually two important turning points in our project's development.

The first turning point occurred a few months after we launched the project. Our initial idea was quite simple: just add a bit of cryptocurrency payment functionality to the existing foundation. Because cryptocurrency has two attributes—payment tools and asset issuance—our product initially focused on the payment endpoint. Essentially, it was a Web2 product aimed at traditional internet live streaming users, helping them solve payment issues. Later, we received a call from Binance, inviting us to join the MVB (Most Valuable Builder) program. To be honest, we were quite confused at the time; although we knew Binance, we had hardly interacted with anyone in the crypto space and even suspected it was a scam call. However, after confirming, we chose to join. This is why, when we disclosed in March last year, our company suddenly appeared in the circle—prior to that, we had no voice in the community. Taking this opportunity, we began to engage with Web3 and understand the industry ecosystem. MVB provided us with comprehensive guidance, and our team took it seriously, trying to arrange for at least two people to participate in each class. I made sure to attend and brought other team members along to ensure rapid learning.

The second turning point occurred in September last year. By that time, we had been operating for a while, collaborating with multiple projects and communicating with many OGs, gradually forming our own judgments. At that time, Trump was campaigning, and we believed that if he were elected, it might impact the war situation. This presented an opportunity for us, but it also meant we had to launch a new product. This product could not deviate from our original industry direction and had to be acceptable to Web3 users while integrating our team's past decade of experience in the internet. Thus, we officially initiated the project at that time and began developing the new product. We spent three months researching data and refining the model, ultimately settling on a direction in November and launching video live streaming-related features. This was an important milestone.

ChainCatcher: How did you obtain investment from YZi Labs? Was there any special story in this process?

Jonny Fish: Actually, for me, there wasn't anything particularly special.

At that time, after we joined Binance's MVB, we received a call from YZi Labs. I think they invested in us possibly because we were serious in class or because we stood out in that project (haha). But the more important reason is that our communication with them was very frequent and in-depth. Frankly speaking, we might have been one of the teams with the weakest Web3 foundation in that cohort. Because of this, we particularly cherished the learning opportunities.

For investors, investing in a project is not just about looking at the project itself but also about assessing the team's capabilities. As an investor myself, I have invested in many projects, and I believe the most important first point is that the project team must have strong learning abilities—they need to be able to digest knowledge and demonstrate growth potential. If a team comes from a big company with a shiny background but clings to their own theories when faced with Web3 knowledge and cannot learn, that is not ideal. Our team's advantage is that, although we also have backgrounds from big companies, we learn quickly and have an open attitude, respecting every new piece of knowledge. When communicating with the YZi Labs team, the questions I asked the most were not about investment terms but rather some very basic industry questions, such as what RWA is.

ChainCatcher: There have been many decentralized live streaming platforms emerging, including Pump.fun, which also launched live streaming features. What unique advantages do you think Sidekick has compared to them?

Jonny Fish: We can first categorize other decentralized live streaming platforms into two types for comparison.

The first type is platforms represented by Pump.fun. Their design is very creative—integrating a launcher function with live streaming, satisfying users' curiosity about trading coins while providing projects with traffic and exposure opportunities. This model is very exciting, but their weakness lies in the lack of experience in the live streaming industry, idealizing the situation without setting up any regulatory mechanisms, resulting in interventions from regulatory bodies. I believe this direction itself is not wrong, but it needs more refined design.

We have a review team of over 30 people dedicated to the comprehensive review of video content. With over a decade of experience in the live streaming and host industry, we know exactly where to review and how to gauge the standards. This is our biggest advantage compared to Pump.fun.

The second type is other Web3 live streaming platforms. Compared to them, our advantage may be that we seized the timing. If Pump.fun hadn't opened this track last year, the "live trading" field might still be immature. The core logic of a live streaming platform is: producers must generate enough assets for users to trade; otherwise, there is no content to broadcast. If it's just live streaming gossip or highlights, why not do it on Twitch or YouTube? A Web3 native live streaming platform needs content producers to take the lead. Pump.fun launched a "factory" last year, enabling countless individuals to become producers and generate content. Now that we are intervening, we play the role of centralized distributors, delivering the right CAs to the right buyers, completing the supply-demand matching.

In fact, we considered live streaming early on when entering the space, but at that time, the timing was not yet right. It was only when the content supply became sufficient that we chose to take action.

ChainCatcher: Will issues like Rug Pull that harm users be involved in our review work?

Jonny Fish: As a platform, it is difficult to completely eliminate such issues because any medium of dissemination carries similar risks. The platform cannot entirely eradicate this phenomenon; it can only strive to set up constraint mechanisms.

But the more critical aspect lies in the selection of hosts, theoretically, the trust endorsement from hosts has already completed the first layer of screening. Just like users trust Dong Yuhui to have done a preliminary screening for products. This also explains why retail investors currently rely more on Smart Wallets or KOL wallets; they lack more intuitive sources of endorsement. Through live trading, the host's trading strategies and consistency can provide stronger trust endorsements for projects.

ChainCatcher: What does the core team of SideKick look like?

Jonny Fish: Our co-founder is one of the co-founders and former CEO of Trovo.live, the largest live streaming platform in Eastern Europe. This platform has 38 million users and about 4 million daily active users, which he built from scratch. He later became independent and joined us. I had a good relationship with him when I initiated the project. His joining helped us solve the challenges in small language markets; he is proficient in Russian and brought rich resources from Eastern Europe.

The second member is our CMO, who was one of the youngest professors at a top 5 university in the UK. During the pandemic, he began researching the market and discovered he was very good at education and guidance, having been a teacher for many years, learning how to influence and motivate others. After exploring the Web3 circle for a few years, he joined us when the project was officially established in 2023.

The third member comes from the investment circle and has led large projects worth over $2 billion, with IPO experience. He is very familiar with the systems of venture capital and the crypto space and is one of the top Chinese investors in Europe, also one of the earliest members to join us. Initially, he invested as an individual and later transitioned to a full-time role.

Overall, the team combines expertise in gaming live streaming operations, educational backgrounds, and investment experience, with each member's strengths complementing one another to provide comprehensive support for the project.

ChainCatcher: Is the team primarily technology-focused? After all, a live streaming platform relies heavily on technical support.

Jonny Fish: Haha, actually, we focus more on abstraction. Technology is not a challenge for us because our background is in building complete systems. Technology is not the core of the product; it is more like a foundational tool. Building a car, most technical challenges can be addressed through existing solutions in the market or by bringing in key talents. What truly determines the success or failure of a product is the founding team's vision—what exactly do we want to do? If the goal is merely to take a gamble and launch a project, then the product may only be a flash in the pan. But if we aim to maximize the dramatic tension and output capability of live streaming content, the team will actively work on this aspect to solve related issues.

While technology is not the most important, it is the foundation of everything. It is like scoring 60 points on a perfect exam paper; once the foundation is laid, the remaining 40 points, and even future bonus points, depend on strong operations, especially host operations. This is the key.

ChainCatcher: What is the biggest challenge facing Sidekick? Is there anything that keeps you up at night?

Jonny Fish: Actually, I have good sleep quality and call myself "the first abstractor," so I generally sleep well. However, the biggest challenge does exist, mainly from host education. Most KOLs in the Web3 circle have not done live streaming, so we need to spend a lot of time teaching from scratch. At the same time, we have also discovered some hosts who are familiar with live streaming on Bilibili and Weibo but have not entered the Twitter circle, and we are trying to bring this new batch of hosts in.

Currently, we have already collaborated with dozens of quality KOLs, and our entire team will revolve around these individuals for service and testing in the early stages. Once the SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) is established, our goal is to increase the number of hosts to 500 within a month.

ChainCatcher: When can we expect the Sidekick App to go live? What are the team's plans for the next year?

Jonny Fish: The product has been in Alpha testing for a while, and both the BSC and Solana networks are now live. We also launched public recruitment for early bird hosts on April 3, welcoming all friends who love interaction, enjoy sharing, and are passionate about the crypto field to participate in our early bird host program. We will provide special support for potential hosts and have exclusive incentive plans. Interactive features like live streaming and host tipping will also be gradually launched.

This year, the team's planning is very important. SideKick still has a lot of room for development, and if possible, we hope to support a whole track. When Douyin first emerged in 2016, Weibo bloggers mocked Douyin as "rural," until Douyin rose in 2019 and 2020, and everyone wanted to join. Content dissemination will inevitably undergo a transition from text to video.

Based on this trend, our strategy is to focus on the present, not to consider too many miscellaneous things, and to do a good job with the product. As long as we can seize this opportunity of transitioning from text to video and allow some content migration to occur on our platform, that will be enough.