Dialogue with Robinhood CEO: Aiming to tokenize SpaceX equity to create an affordable "pocket private bank" for everyone

Guest: Vlad Tenev, Robinhood CEO

Host: David Hoffman

Podcast Source: Bankless

Original Title: Vlad Tenev Wants to Tokenize SpaceX & OpenAI on Robinhood

Release Date: March 31, 2025

Key Points Summary

Robinhood CEO Vlad Tenev returns to Bankless for an in-depth discussion on asset tokenization, cryptocurrency regulation, and Robinhood's new products.

In the interview, Vlad paints an exciting picture of the future: using tokenization technology to bring equity in companies like SpaceX and OpenAI to everyday investors. He also explores how prediction markets can become "truth machines" and details Robinhood's three latest products: Strategies, Cortex, and Banking.

Highlights of the Discussion

• Our goal is to provide all customers with the same access, opportunities, and strategies as high-net-worth individuals. This service philosophy is akin to the promise of the iPhone: how to provide users with a luxurious and prideful product experience at an affordable price.

• In our three new businesses, Robinhood Strategies acts as your digital investment advisor, Robinhood Cortex serves as your research assistant, and Robinhood Banking functions as your private banker.

• The SEC announced the end of investigations into cryptocurrency and some other companies in the industry, which gives us a sense of relief, feeling that we as a company and as an industry can move forward without facing this endless assault.

• If you can issue a token corresponding to a company on a blockchain within a jurisdiction, you will immediately access this increasingly liquid global market with hundreds of millions of participants. I believe this will ultimately lead to acceptance in the U.S. as well.

• The stablecoin bill may be the first to be enacted, which is a positive signal for the industry. However, we are more focused on the market structure bill, as it will provide a clear framework for how crypto assets can integrate into the real-world financial system.

• Just as stablecoin legislation can promote the dominance of the dollar, I believe tokenized securities can truly drive the dominance of U.S. companies in the global market, thereby increasing the pool of shareholders for U.S. companies.

• I have always supported fair competition in the market. I believe the relationship between traditional banks and the crypto space may become more integrated rather than differentiated in the future. Some advantages of the traditional banking system can be adapted to the crypto space, while many innovations in crypto technology are also suitable for integration into the banking system.

Views on the New Government

David:

Vlad, it's great to have you back on the show. Welcome to Bankless.

Vlad:

Thank you for having me. I'm glad to be here again.

David:

I want to start by discussing an important topic in the cryptocurrency space—the new changes in the U.S. regulatory environment. The new government's policies have opened many doors for the U.S. crypto industry, especially for institutional investors who have been hesitant due to regulatory uncertainty. So, under the new administration, what new opportunities does Robinhood have? What businesses can you now pursue that were previously unattainable? Where will you prioritize your actions?

Vlad:

I think the most direct change is the cessation of regulation through enforcement, a significant improvement is that we are no longer facing a comprehensive assault on all aspects of crypto business. For example, the SEC announced the end of investigations into cryptocurrency and some other companies in the industry, which gives us a sense of relief, feeling that we as a company and as an industry can move forward without facing this endless assault. The previous administration clearly believed that cryptocurrencies should not exist in substantive form and certainly should not integrate with the traditional financial system. So I think this is a significant advancement, and there are currently two important pieces of legislation underway.

Additionally, the legal status of Memecoins has become clearer. Recently, the SEC released a memo clarifying that Memecoins do not fall under the category of securities. While this is a relatively simple legal analysis, previously each company had to conduct a separate analysis for each coin, which was both time-consuming and costly. Robinhood has always placed a strong emphasis on compliance and has conducted rigorous securities analyses for each coin. Therefore, this legal clarity is a significant help for us.

Similarly, the clarity around whether staking constitutes a security is also increasing. This is also a good thing, as staking is essentially people contributing their computing power to support the blockchain. Staking providers aim to simplify this process. Generally, this leads to more yields, allowing customers to have more cryptocurrency in their pockets. Therefore, the lack of clarity is actually harming U.S. consumers because they cannot obtain more yields from more regulated platforms.

So having this clarity is a good thing. There are currently two important pieces of legislation moving forward: one is about stablecoins, and the other is about market structure. The stablecoin bill may be the first to be enacted, which is a positive signal for the industry. However, we are more focused on the market structure bill, as it will provide a clear framework for how crypto assets can integrate into the real-world financial system. For example, which crypto assets are securities and which are commodities? What steps do we need to take as a platform to list crypto asset securities? The answers to these questions will unlock tremendous potential for the industry.

I think these are big questions, and legislation will help us answer them and unlock the true potential of crypto technology, which we are very much looking forward to.

You mentioned that some companies are trying to combine stablecoins with banking services, such as generating yields through staking or liquidity pools. I believe the market structure bill will pave the way for such products while also bringing more competition to the industry. Currently, stablecoins have not fully reached this stage because the regulations surrounding yield-generating stablecoins are still unclear. Therefore, more regulatory clarity is needed to establish them on a firmer foundation, but we are optimistic about their arrival, and I believe things are moving in a positive direction.

David:

If I understand correctly, many potential product lines are currently still in the theoretical stage. We can only truly enter the product implementation and building phase once the market structure bill is passed, right?

Vlad:

Yes, for example, a yield-generating stablecoin that pays interest directly to holders operates similarly to a money market fund. The underlying assets of stablecoins typically include safe assets like government bonds. Therefore, stablecoins are structurally very similar to money market funds, but due to the lack of regulatory clarity, they are viewed as different entities. I believe this is where regulation can play a role.

Benefits of Tokenization

David:

What about the area of tokenization? I think this is a very hot topic because I believe it serves as a bridge between traditional banks, traditional finance, and the crypto world, allowing us to tokenize more assets and start leveraging the value of public permissionless blockchains.

What role does Robinhood play in this tokenization movement? I assume you are optimistic about it. Do you see yourselves as issuers or platforms? Will Robinhood create tokenized products, or do you prefer to be a marketplace for these products? What is your position in the tokenization tech stack?

Vlad:

By this definition, tokenization is the representation of non-crypto native assets on the blockchain so that they can be freely traded.

We have already seen this with stablecoins, which are essentially tokenized government bonds. Additionally, Paxos has a tokenized gold product, which is a very interesting product. We have actually partnered with Paxos and several other companies to launch USDG, a global network of U.S. dollars aimed at establishing a stablecoin that is usable globally and pays attractive yields to holders.

The next step is clearly the tokenization of securities, and we are very excited about this. It allows you to own a company in the same way that stablecoin legislation ensures the dollar's dominance globally, and I believe this is why people are excited about it. Everyone wants U.S. dollars and U.S. government bonds to be accepted and purchased, and there is high demand for these products globally.

Therefore, just as stablecoin legislation can promote the dominance of the dollar, I believe tokenized securities can truly drive the dominance of U.S. companies in the global market, thereby increasing the pool of shareholders for U.S. companies. Currently, investing in U.S. companies from abroad is very difficult. Just as stablecoins have made obtaining dollars easier, tokenized securities will make accessing U.S. companies much simpler. So we are excited about this. I believe it benefits companies and those outside the U.S. as they will be able to access these effective wealth-building tools, which also serve as a means of diversification, especially in cases of severe local currency depreciation, helping them cope with the loss of purchasing power.

I believe this is also beneficial for our entrepreneurs in terms of capital formation. If entering the global crypto market makes it easier for U.S. companies to raise funds, we will see more interesting companies. A few months ago, we actually published an op-ed in The Washington Post making the case for tokenizing private securities. Currently, investing in private companies like OpenAI or SpaceX is very difficult, and I believe crypto can help solve this problem. So if we can tokenize private companies, it will benefit both the companies and the investors. What amazes me is that there are still many restrictions on investing in companies like SpaceX and OpenAI, while we have a clear definition for Memecoins, and people can essentially invest freely in these tokens.

Tokenization of SpaceX

David:

Based on the information available, it seems that there is indeed trading of SpaceX equity in the market. Finding a way to access SpaceX equity is not crazy. So I think what you're saying is that since the market already exists in the private market space, we can tokenize this equity and use crypto technology to turn it into a more formal and structured market. Then I imagine Robinhood would be happy to become the marketplace for tokenized equity. If I put this information together, it seems like a very feasible future. Do you think this is your roadmap? How close are we to tokenizing SpaceX equity on Robinhood?

Vlad:

Yes, I believe Robinhood is at the intersection of traditional finance and crypto. We have all the crypto technology and the infrastructure of traditional finance. Therefore, I think tokenizing equity is one of the important areas we can contribute to the entire ecosystem.

The future tokenized equity may operate similarly to ETFs (exchange-traded funds). ETF issuers hold a basket of securities and then issue shares of the ETF in some way, which is essentially a precursor to tokenized securities. In this process, if you bring a basket of securities to the ETF issuer, they will exchange it for ETF shares, and vice versa; you can redeem the ETF for the underlying basket of securities. This is an analogy to what has already happened in traditional finance, and tokenization can evolve using crypto technology.

Alternatives to IPOs

David:

While the number of public market IPOs has not significantly decreased, the overall trend is downward. This is primarily because the costs of IPOs are prohibitively high, and the barriers for companies to enter the public capital markets are increasing. Do you think this trend will drive the prospects for private market tokenization, or is it too complex in terms of national compliance and financial regulations?

Vlad:

I believe the trend of tokenized securities does indeed pave the way for alternatives to IPOs. While it may not be achievable in the U.S. in the short term, this trend is gradually emerging in international markets. Many countries are establishing frameworks for issuing crypto asset securities, and crypto is inherently global. Therefore, if you can issue a company's token on a blockchain within a jurisdiction, you will immediately access this increasingly liquid global market with hundreds of millions of participants. I believe this will ultimately lead to acceptance in the U.S. as well.

For private companies, this is essentially primary capital in the early stages of the company's formation, equivalent to raising funds from shareholders in a traditional IPO. In the early stages, primary capital is very useful because I remember when I was an entrepreneur running a seed-stage company, the fundraising model consumed a lot of energy and resources. And when you are a small company, these resources are very important. If tokenization can allow entrepreneurs to quickly access the global capital markets, it will become an excellent option for early founders. It not only helps more companies secure funding during the riskiest stages but also provides investors with potential high-return opportunities.

For mature private companies like OpenAI or SpaceX, the value proposition is different. At this point, it may not be very interesting for the founders of these companies because they have already raised a lot of money and may be planning an IPO or other things, but it is very attractive for employees. These companies have thousands of employees who are looking for liquidity, and they do not know when there will be an IPO or liquidity event, so employees want to diversify to some extent, which becomes a strong value proposition.

Currently, there are some secondary platforms, such as Equity Zen or Forge, that operate in this space and actively reach out to employees of these companies because they are an audience seeking diversification and selling secondary shares. However, the problem with these models is that liquidity is actually fragmented, so the platforms themselves must figure out how to source supply and bring it in, whereas crypto benefits from interoperability, allowing it to be freely traded on the blockchain and immediately access global liquidity, which is why I believe it is an excellent technical solution.

David:

There are indeed some trends clearly pointing in this direction. Additionally, there are many excellent companies, such as SpaceX and OpenAI, that are private companies and seem to have no intention of going public. These AI labs, as a broad category, actually do not have public equity, or companies like Facebook or Google are too large to serve as a dilution investment tool.

Vlad:

As a retail investor, if you want to access AI, your choices are very limited. You can choose NVIDIA, Alphabet, or Tesla, but you cannot access interesting AI companies like OpenAI, Anthropic, or Perplexity.

David:

Looking back at market trends over the past few decades, it can be seen that opportunities in modern society are no longer in public markets but in private markets. As I mentioned earlier, the compliance costs of IPOs are increasing, while crypto provides a technological solution. I see multiple different tailwinds pointing to this inevitable conclusion: tokenizing private market equity and making it a sort of pseudo-public market.

Prediction Markets

David:

I also want to talk about prediction markets, as Robinhood is also involved in this area. Robinhood has a "Everything is a Market" slogan; is this my misunderstanding, or do you indeed have such an official brand goal?

Vlad:

We do not use that slogan. Our company's name is Robinhood Markets, which is our parent company. Therefore, our mission is "to democratize finance for all." This means we believe in the power of markets and are committed to allowing everyone to participate in market trading fairly. Generally, if this is an institutional market and regular users are interested, they should also be allowed to participate in a competitive environment on equal footing.

This also applies to prediction markets. But I think prediction markets have additional value. For me personally, having a robust prediction market means there are societal benefits beyond trading, meaning you can get better predictions on various events. We saw this in elections, where prediction markets provided relevant information hours or even days before traditional media. I think you will see this across multiple different categories. Therefore, I believe prediction markets are "truth machines"; they are an evolution of news, an evolution of newspapers, and in some cases, you can even get news through prediction markets before events occur.

Kalshi Platform

David:

Like many people, I hosted an election party. We watched mainstream media's election coverage while discussing the election situation with friends in the crypto space. In addition to traditional news, we also opened the Polymarket platform. Everyone took turns switching between Polymarket and mainstream media, and the data from Polymarket was more real-time and clearly more interesting. Recently, Robinhood released an announcement; let me read it, and then we can discuss prediction markets more clearly.

Recently, Robinhood launched a prediction market center that allows customers to trade outcomes of some of the world's biggest events. The first markets include predictions for the Federal Reserve's fund rate cap and the upcoming NCAA men's and women's basketball championship results. While these two markets are of different types, they are both very attractive. I think you have partially answered my question about why Robinhood wants to integrate prediction markets into the platform. However, it is worth mentioning that this prediction market product is powered by Kalshi. Can you talk about the partnership between Robinhood and Kalshi? What specific role does Kalshi play in this prediction market?

Vlad:

Kalshi is a designated contract market (DCM). You can think of a DCM as similar to an exchange, like a stock exchange. In the stock space, there are exchanges like Nasdaq and the New York Stock Exchange. Brokers, including Robinhood, connect to these exchanges or trade through market makers on these exchanges, where buyers and sellers actually cross paths, and the exchange essentially creates a market.

In the stock space, Robinhood is a broker; we are responsible for receiving customer orders and routing them to market makers or sending them directly to exchanges. In the futures market, which is regulated by the CFTC, there are designated contract markets (DCM), which are places where buyers and sellers meet, just like exchanges. Then there are futures commission merchants (FCM), and in this case, Robinhood is an FCM. We are responsible for customer relationships and interfaces, and then we route orders to DCMs and match them through market makers.

So you can think of Kalshi as similar to Nasdaq or NYSE, while we play the traditional role of a broker. In fact, during the presidential election, we also connected to a different DCM called Forecast Decks, which is a subsidiary of Interactive Brokers. Therefore, we have the capability to connect to multiple DCMs and provide different products offered by these exchanges. In fact, DCMs have final responsibility for listing contracts. Therefore, all contracts we list must be listed on a DCM to be provided by us.

David:

So you cannot provide your own prediction market. It must be done on a third-party DCM.

Vlad:

Yes, in fact, platforms like Polymarket cannot legally operate prediction markets in the U.S. because they are not DCMs. They use a crypto-based approach. I think this is one of the issues that needs clarification in the market structure legislation we discussed earlier. The CFTC regulates these as commodities and has corresponding licenses. So will prediction markets like Polymarket operate under this regulation? Or will there be other regulations because it is crypto? These are all questions we need legislation to allow large prediction markets like Polymarket to operate in the U.S.

Future of Prediction Markets

David:

I think many listeners would hope to use Polymarket in the U.S. The last question about prediction markets is, currently, Robinhood's prediction markets start with the Federal Reserve fund rate and men's and women's basketball games; what is the future direction? What prediction markets can users participate in trading on Robinhood next?

Vlad:

With the launch of our latest round of contract markets, we have evolved from being able to list only one contract to being able to list hundreds of contracts simultaneously. Of course, this involves the operational complexities of clearing, payments, and setting up new contracts, especially those that rely on data from previous contracts. This has already been reflected in the predictions for men's and women's college basketball. But soon, we will be able to expand the number of contracts from hundreds to thousands, opening the door for various types of prediction markets.

We are very interested in prediction markets related to the economy, and I am also very interested in the progress of artificial intelligence. There are some very cool prediction markets that can provide clear insights into different AI developments, and I believe our customers will be very interested in this. In fact, I think the coverage of prediction markets should be as broad as newspapers. Newspapers have front-page news, sports sections, business sections, and arts and leisure sections, and prediction markets can also be categorized similarly to provide comprehensive information to users.

David:

Prediction markets as truth machines, I think this is one of the reasons why people in the crypto space are so interested in prediction markets. There have also been some quite significant and sensitive geopolitical events in the past, such as the conflict between Israel and Iran, where Polymarket had a set of prediction markets that actually provided real insights into people's views on the likelihood of future events, and these are also highly impactful and sensitive topics. If we enter an unstable geopolitical future, people will want to understand the market's views on the probabilities of certain outcomes. How do you view the idea of integrating high-risk global macro geopolitical prediction markets within Robinhood?

Vlad:

I think this is important for society. Currently, the CFTC has guidelines for prediction markets and event contracts that essentially state that predictions that are contrary to public interest should not be listed. I think this is a relatively vague general category, but we should try to limit it because I truly believe that the vast majority of prediction markets are in the public interest.

Robinhood's Three New Businesses

Robinhood Banking

David:

You held quite an important event, similar to a Robinhood summit, announcing three different new business areas: Robinhood Strategies, Robinhood Banking, and Robinhood Cortex. Let's start with Robinhood Banking; can you elaborate on this product and why this product line was created?

Vlad:

The overall inspiration comes from our goal to provide all customers with the same access, opportunities, and strategies as high-net-worth individuals. We want to put a complex, high-net-worth family office-style financial team in everyone's pocket and offer it to our Gold subscribers for just $5 a month. This service philosophy is akin to the promise of the iPhone: how to provide users with a luxurious and prideful product experience at an affordable price.

So this is the main thread behind the three products we announced at the Gold event. Strategies is your digital investment advisor, Cortex is your research assistant, and Robinhood Banking acts as your private banker. I believe this is also the first AI product we are launching within Robinhood. Therefore, in the future, you will see the latest intelligent models and reasoning models further integrated into the product experience, truly providing you with an outstanding experience where each part can understand each other.

Robinhood Cortex

David:

When I saw this announcement, I saw Robinhood Cortex and thought, "What? Robinhood launched an AI agent?"

But upon further understanding, I found its functionality quite meaningful. Can you give an example of how users would use Robinhood Cortex? I guess it will be embedded in the Robinhood app, allowing users to ask various finance-related questions. So is it a finance-themed large language model (LLM)? Or is it a pop-up window? Can you elaborate on this?

Vlad:

Currently, in the Robinhood app, it has two use cases. One is answering current stock dynamics. If you use Robinhood, you occasionally receive notifications about market fluctuations, such as a stock rising or falling by 5%. Then a typical use case is to check that stock and figure out what happened. Cortex will answer this question on the stock detail page, and it will try to explain the reasons behind the fluctuation, which is part of the stock dynamics.

Another use case is options trading. Options are very complex; you need to handle a lot of information and must be quite experienced to construct an options trade, especially in the case of multi-leg options trading (involving multiple trading combinations). Cortex achieves this through a trade builder that predicts the future movement of a stock at a certain time and constructs options trades to help you execute that prediction. It is quite a magical experience. We did a demonstration at the Gold event where you can select a specific stock, make a prediction, and then it generates a trade plan that can be executed directly or guides you to our upcoming side-by-side options chain interface.

David:

**The core idea of Cortex is to transform users' investment intentions expressed in natural language into trading strategies. Users input their thoughts, and the *AI* processes this information and returns some possible options trading combinations, such as "Here are some trading plans you might be interested in." Is this the basic logic of Cortex?**

Vlad:

But its capabilities go beyond that. Cortex integrates all available information, including real-time market data, technical indicators, and news updates from various sources. By synthesizing this data, it can not only generate predictions but also provide users with insights and analyses to help them make better decisions.

David:

**Can you introduce what makes this *LLM* unique? I guess it is not just a simple ChatGPT shell but is optimized for the financial domain. What is special about its training data, or what unique processing has been done in later training to make it a financial LLM focused on Robinhood?**

Vlad:

Traditional large language models often do not have access to real-time market data or financial data. Their data is often outdated, so they cannot accurately tell you the current price of a stock. Moreover, they are prone to "hallucinations" when providing financial information, generating inaccurate or false content. To address these issues, we built a technical layer to ensure that the data users receive is real-time, explainable, and avoids hallucinations. This resolves two key issues that most LLMs face in financial applications.

David:

If we do not handle this well, hallucinations in a financial context can be disastrous.

Vlad:

Yes, but fortunately, we have a real data source. **Unlike writing a history paper, the *truthfulness* of financial data can be verified. Therefore, we can set strict "guardrails" to ensure that the generated content is accurate and quickly identify and correct any hallucinations.**

David:

This may be Robinhood's main competitive advantage in developing a financial AI assistant. You have real-time market data, user behavior data, and a wealth of financial-related resources, all integrated into the capabilities of the LLM.

Vlad:

Yes, this is an advantage. Another advantage is that you can trade within our app. If we can tightly integrate Cortex's suggestions with the context of what users are actually doing, its practicality will greatly increase. We do not want to just place a chat box in the app because people do not know how to use it. We want Cortex not only to generate smooth responses but also to avoid lengthy and hallucination issues, which is what we are striving for.

Robinhood Strategies

David:

Regarding the Strategies part, is it possible that this product will expand into the crypto asset space in the future? After all, in the crypto industry, many people get asked similar questions by friends, like "What cryptocurrency should I buy? Or how should I invest in crypto assets?" because they really do not know. If the strategies product could support some complex, crypto-centric investment strategies, that would be very attractive. What preparations are needed to achieve this?

Vlad:

From a technical standpoint, we have not encountered any obstacles. In fact, we have a feature list that includes dozens or even hundreds of features that can be added to the strategies product. We want to prioritize meeting our customers' most pressing needs.

Currently, we have laid a solid foundation. We chose to start with individual stocks because most other digital advisor platforms only support ETFs (exchange-traded funds). We have developed the capability to include individual assets and stocks in portfolios. Of course, we also support ETFs and have designed an intuitive interface, such as using pie charts to clearly display asset allocation. Additionally, we provide an automatic rebalancing feature to help users adjust their portfolios based on market changes, making investing more worry-free.

I believe we have built a good foundation. We want to start with individual stocks because most other digital advisor platforms only offer ETFs. Therefore, we have built the capability to include individual assets and stocks in portfolios. Of course, we also support ETFs, and we have built a good interface with a pie chart to clarify your asset allocation. We can rebalance on behalf of clients. So this is as close as possible to a "worry-free investing" button.

I also want to specifically mention that one unique aspect of the strategies product is that it disrupts the traditional fee model. Traditional investment advisors typically charge based on assets under management (AUM), with rates around 1%, while robo-advisors charge lower rates, about 0.25%. However, this proportional fee model has a problem: as the size of the portfolio increases, the fees users pay also increase, but the value of the services provided by the advisor does not necessarily grow in tandem. For example, managing a million-dollar portfolio is not more complex than managing a hundred-thousand-dollar portfolio, yet users have to pay ten times the fee. This model can leave high-net-worth clients feeling dissatisfied because they pay more but do not receive more service value.

To address this issue, Robinhood Strategies adopts a capped fee model, where no matter how large your portfolio is, the fee will not exceed $250. Therefore, for users with a million-dollar asset, switching to Robinhood Strategies offers excellent value.

David:

How does this fee model affect the product's incentive structure? Because it is no longer a business driven by assets under management (AUM), but rather shifts to a customer number-oriented model. So how does Robinhood benefit from the user growth of the strategies product, especially with the fee cap set at $250 per customer?

Vlad:

Indeed, this model attracts more high-net-worth clients to transfer their funds to our platform. The revenue we derive from this primarily comes from asset management fees. Additionally, we also benefit from Robinhood Gold subscriptions. We have found that once users become subscribers of Robinhood Gold and place a significant portion of their wealth with us, such as investing $1,000, they gradually discover more value and tend to use more of our services, such as credit cards and self-trading features.

So our goal is to capture as many of our customers' financial relationships as possible and make it easier for them to transfer all their funds to Robinhood. At the same time, as the total amount of funds we manage increases, our revenue will also grow.

Cash Delivery

David:

I have two more questions about this new product line. One is about the cash delivery service you launched. I compare it to a "cash delivery service similar to Uber Eats"; I wonder if this analogy is accurate. Can you talk about why you launched such a service? How does it specifically work? For example, how do users operate in the app, and how is cash delivered to users?

Vlad:

You can think of it this way; we are actually entering the logistics space, which excites me greatly. This service is primarily aimed at high-end clients of private banking, and there are two reasons behind it.

First, we do not have physical branch locations. So we thought, how can we provide users with digital banking services without compromise? Without branch locations, when users need cash, they often have to go to convenience stores like 711 or CVS to withdraw cash. But this clearly does not align with the high-end positioning of private banking services. By the way, currently, 16% of payments in the U.S. are still made in cash. While the usage of cash is gradually declining, it remains very important in many scenarios. Therefore, we need a new solution that allows banking services to proactively "deliver to the door."

Today, these on-demand logistics platforms have become very powerful. They can deliver things to you in 10 or 15 minutes; you can buy an iPhone and have it delivered to your home. So this is a solution to the problem. Of course, we will not take on the entire logistics chain ourselves but will work with partners to accomplish this. While this is a complex task, we believe it can provide significant value to users.

Of course, we will not take on the entire logistics chain ourselves but will work with partners to accomplish this. While this is a complex task, we believe it can provide significant value to users.

As the service rolls out, we will gradually learn more about the practical operational details, such as which aspects present challenges, what users' actual needs are, and what the typical transaction amounts are. I expect the average transaction amount to be in the low hundreds of dollars.

Listing of Cryptocurrencies

David:

Returning to the topic of crypto assets. Does Robinhood plan to list more cryptocurrencies? The variety of cryptocurrencies currently offered in the Robinhood app is relatively limited; will you expand your choices in this area in the future?

Vlad:

Yes, since the election, we have listed many new assets. I believe we currently cover most of the high-volume assets that customers are interested in. For example, the Trump coin was widely welcomed after its launch on inauguration day. We have been continuously adding new assets, but now dozens or even hundreds of new assets are created every week, which has made us realize the need to rethink how to handle the listing process for these assets more efficiently.

Next, you will see more developments with the Robinhood wallet. The Robinhood wallet is an on-chain product based on decentralized finance (DeFi), and currently, its functionality is not tightly integrated with the main Robinhood app. But I believe that over time, the two will gradually merge. We plan to add some on-chain features to the main app while making the wallet app more convenient for seamless conversion between fiat and cryptocurrencies.

I believe that in the future, Robinhood's services and the entire industry will move towards tighter integration. In this trend, the barriers to asset listing will lower, and the processes will become more automated. If we find that a certain asset has high trading volume, we will optimize the backend to make the listing more efficient and simplified.

Our goal is to provide customers with more choices while ensuring that users are not confused by the emergence of hundreds of new tokens each week. As the variety of assets in the market increases, it becomes increasingly difficult to distinguish between high-quality and low-quality tokens. We need to address this issue, avoiding the promotion of unreliable tokens while preventing customers from easily investing without understanding.

Why Separate Multiple Apps?

David:

So you have the Robinhood wallet, the core Robinhood app, and the Robinhood credit card, which I believe is also in line with the Robinhood Banking business direction. So is the separation of these apps primarily due to regulatory and compliance considerations? Are there plans to integrate all functionalities into a single financial super app in the future?

Vlad:

We initially considered integrating all functionalities into one app, but later found that the challenges of doing so are significant. An app that serves both active traders and banking users would need to have a user experience on the homepage that precisely meets different needs. However, the needs of traders and banking customers are often completely different. For example, traders are more focused on asset prices and buying/selling operations, while banking users need more convenient payment and account management features. Therefore, most users' habits are to keep trading interfaces and banking interfaces separate. While it is theoretically possible to unify them, there are currently no successful cases to reference. Therefore, my stance is open, and I am willing to try different approaches.

The concept of a super app is indeed very appealing, and we may be able to develop a fully functional app, but I do not believe that all functionalities must be centralized in one app. More importantly, we want to achieve unified customer identity verification (KYC) and facilitate the flow of funds between accounts. Beyond that, we want to create the best interface based on users' actual needs. In the future, we may add more functionalities to the main Robinhood app while also encouraging teams to develop standalone apps. Ultimately, we may launch more than three apps. Similar to Uber and Uber Eats, we may recombine or split these apps in the future based on actual operational experience to better meet user needs.

How "Bankless" is Robinhood?

David:

Vlad, as we conclude this interview, I want to talk about Robinhood's relationship with cryptocurrency and fintech. As you know, this podcast is called "Bankless," and we advocate for decentralization, promoting self-custody of finances and crypto assets. Some parts of Robinhood are very "bank-like," such as the banking-related products you are launching. I believe cryptocurrencies, especially DeFi, have certain advantages in competing with traditional finance because traditional financial savings accounts have annual interest rates of only 0.25%, like those at Wells Fargo, which are terrible products, and innovation comes from outdated traditional finance.

That said, I also appreciate that Robinhood has brought real competitiveness to traditional finance. At the same time, I notice that while Robinhood is not completely decentralized, more and more crypto functionalities are being integrated into your products. So my question is: How decentralized is Robinhood? What is the future direction? Where do you think the balance point will be between decentralization and traditional models for Robinhood?

Vlad:

In fact, Robinhood is "bankless"; we do not have a banking charter. Many people ask us if we will apply for a banking charter and what that would mean. Traditional financial companies typically need a banking charter to access federal payment systems (Fed Wire), Zelle, and to conduct lending activities. However, our current model is to act as a neutral platform, partnering with banks to provide the necessary services. For example, we partner with Coastal Community Bank to provide credit and banking services, along with other partners involved in our cash sweep program.

In fact, many large crypto and decentralized finance (DeFi) protocols still require bank support on the backend. If users want to transfer fiat currency onto the chain, banks are an indispensable part of that process. I believe that as regulatory frameworks gradually clarify, we may see the emergence of "crypto banks." These banks may obtain some form of licensing, and the regulatory requirements may be more lenient than those of the OCC's national bank charter, but they will still need to comply with treasury management and reserve requirements. After all, without rules, users could be harmed. For example, Terra Luna's Anchor Protocol and Celsius, which appeared to be bank-like protocols, ultimately led to serious issues due to a lack of key regulatory mechanisms.

I have always supported fair competition in the market. I believe the relationship between traditional banks and the crypto space may become more integrated rather than differentiated in the future. Some advantages of the traditional banking system can be adapted to the crypto space, while many innovations in crypto technology are also suitable for integration into the banking system. We are at a critical moment where we can combine the two to provide users with more practical solutions. This is an exciting opportunity for both the crypto industry and users. If Robinhood can play a role in promoting this integration, I believe it will be a very meaningful endeavor.