Exclusive Interview with Offchain Labs CEO: Why Did Robinhood Choose Arbitrum?

Compilation: Deep Tide TechFlow

Guest: Steven Goldfeder, Founder and CEO of Offchain Labs

Host: Laura Shin

Podcast Source: Unchained

Original Title: Why the Arbitrum Stack Won in the Race to Support Robinhood Chain

Broadcast Date: July 4, 2025

Key Takeaways

Steven Goldfeder, CEO of Offchain Labs, explains why Robinhood chose Arbitrum to rebuild the crypto infrastructure of its core products, the potential brought by on-chain stock tokenization, and why we may be re-entering a "zero to one" phase in the crypto space.

Co-founder of Offchain Labs, Steven Goldfeder, shared on the Unchained show why Robinhood chose to rebuild its products based on the Arbitrum tech stack, which signifies the evolution of crypto technology and how this move ultimately connects Web2 and Web3.

Highlights

• For Robinhood, there are several compelling reasons to launch its own blockchain, one key point being MEV capture. This includes both MEV capture and fee capture—unique advantages brought by launching its own blockchain.

• Whether on Arbitrum One or on Robinhood's own chain for tokenized stock issuance, this is what we truly look forward to as the "ultimate prize." It’s not just about "launching another asset on-chain," but about deeply integrating blockchain technology with existing Web2 infrastructure.

• Tokenizing stocks and introducing them into the blockchain market is indeed a brand new innovation. We need to deeply understand how to connect the dynamic relationship between the traditional financial system and blockchain. This is indeed a challenge, but we should not shy away from it.

• Crypto technology will be at the core of the next financial revolution. We cannot remain stuck in past models; blockchain and cryptocurrencies will become the financial infrastructure of the future, and ultimately everyone will adapt and shift in this direction.

• The technical issue of liquidity fragmentation accounts for only 10%; the real core is the 90% user experience (UX) and wallet support issues. Even with the most complex protocols, if wallets cannot simplify user operations and provide a unified environment, these technological innovations will not truly take effect.

• Blockchain will integrate into our financial system and become a part of it. I believe this will become increasingly evident over time, and blockchain will play a crucial role.

• When blockchain technology gradually becomes mainstream and widely accepted, institutions will realize that building on blockchain not only provides better services for users but also reduces costs and enhances profitability. This is a win-win choice.

• Empowering users with self-sovereignty is very important, meaning users can transfer assets to their own wallets at any time or choose other custodial methods.

• If you think the future of the crypto industry is merely what we saw a week ago, then you might feel there’s no need to develop L2. But in reality, the industry's development requires greater capacity. The development roadmap for L2 is the only path that can meet future demands.

• Through the development roadmap of L2, we can shift from a single L1 platform to a more decentralized and efficient L2 ecosystem. Although this process is not easy, once we solve the interoperability issues, we can achieve long-term sustainable development.

Why Robinhood Chose Arbitrum and How Much Control They Actually Have

Laura:

Welcome to Unchained on July 4, 2025. Today's guest is Steven Goldfeder, co-founder and CEO of Offchain Labs. Steven, it's great to have you on the show.

The big news recently is that Robinhood announced the launch of perpetual contracts, tokenized stocks, and their own blockchain. This indicates that not only is the crypto industry pushing users on-chain, but other sectors are also beginning to realize the potential of blockchain technology and gradually adopting it. Robinhood initially chose to launch on Arbitrum 1 while building its own chain using the Arbitrum tech stack, which is a significant milestone for Arbitrum. There are rumors that Robinhood may have initially considered Solana but ultimately chose Arbitrum. So, Steven, can you share the main reasons behind Robinhood's decision?

Steven:

Robinhood's choice is primarily based on two key factors. The first is the maturity and security of the Arbitrum tech stack. Our technology has been running stably in production for years, capable of supporting the demands of enterprises like Robinhood.

The second is flexibility. Robinhood initially launched tokenized stocks and ETFs on Arbitrum 1 while announcing plans to migrate to its own Arbitrum chain, the Robinhood chain, in the future. Arbitrum is the only ecosystem that has both a trusted neutral blockchain (like Arbitrum 1) and provides a top-tier blockchain tech stack. This combination allows Robinhood to quickly launch and easily scale to its own chain as demand grows without making significant adjustments to the existing architecture.

Laura:

One of the attractions of the Arbitrum tech stack is that it allows enterprises to highly customize based on their needs. Can you elaborate on the customization options provided by Arbitrum Orbit?

Steven:

Certainly. Customization mainly falls into two categories: basic customization and advanced customization. Basic customization includes options we directly support, such as gas token customization. Arbitrum 1 uses Ethereum as the default gas token, but users can choose to use stablecoins or their own tokens as gas tokens. Additionally, the data availability layer can also choose different solutions, such as Celestia.

Similarly, for the data availability layer, Arbitrum 1 uses Ethereum, which is the most secure data availability layer. But we also support Celestia and many other data availability layers that are being launched.

These are basically two examples of out-of-the-box customization. There are also deeper customizations, such as block time; Arbitrum 1 has a block time of 250 milliseconds, but some chains (like Ray) operate at 100 milliseconds, and the technology is stable enough to support this. These are just parameters you can set.

Then there’s what I call "deeper customization," where you actually need to go into the backend and change some things yourself. These methods may not be supported, but you can try them freely.

For example, chains like Phoenix are building privacy directly into the Arbitrum tech stack. They are using fully homomorphic encryption in this case to enhance privacy. Chains like Plume and Kaito are adding institutional KYC controls at the chain level itself. So, you have an environment where everyone goes through compliance checks upon entry. These are some examples.

Additionally, some communities will enforce royalty fees, and if you want to transfer specific assets on-chain, there will be mandatory requirements. Many different customizations, but all using the core of Arbitrum technology.

How Arbitrum Stylus Provides a Better User Experience for Robinhood and Other Platforms

Laura:

Among the technical advantages of Arbitrum, there's a noteworthy product—Arbitrum Stylus. Can you introduce its features and what problems it solves for enterprises using Arbitrum technology?

Steven:

Arbitrum Stylus is an innovative product we launched last September, and it is very unique in the blockchain space; currently, there are no similar solutions in other ecosystems. The main feature of Stylus is that it allows developers to use traditional programming languages like Rust and C++ on Arbitrum 1, rather than being limited to Solidity. This is very practical for developers, especially in scenarios requiring high-performance computing, such as validating new signature schemes or zero-knowledge proofs. Rust and C++ are generally more efficient than Solidity, allowing developers to directly bring code from these languages onto the chain for writing smart contracts.

Moreover, for complex computational tasks like AI inference, the performance advantages of Stylus are significant. According to our benchmarks, computations using Stylus can typically achieve over ten times the performance improvement while significantly reducing costs.

Another notable advantage of Stylus is its flexibility. Traditional blockchain development usually requires developers to choose between EVM chains and Rust chains in advance, and this choice affects subsequent development work. On Arbitrum and any chain supporting Stylus, developers can use both EVM and other languages simultaneously and freely choose the most suitable tools. Additionally, contracts written in different languages can interact seamlessly, and developers don’t even need to know what language a particular contract is written in. For example, an application can be primarily written in Solidity, but certain complex parts can be rewritten in Rust for efficiency.

Integrating these tools seamlessly for our developers is very important. When it comes to the fusion of Web 2 and Web 3, developers from Web 2 typically prefer these other languages. Therefore, we want to have a single environment that can attract both EVM developers who like Solidity and those Web 2 developers with years of experience in Rust, C, or C++ who can now leverage these languages directly in their blockchain applications.

Laura:

I imagine companies like Robinhood have a lot of legacy code, and if they could easily integrate it into the blockchain tech stack, it could significantly simplify system integration. This is one of the attractions of Stylus, right?

Steven:

While I can't fully represent Robinhood in describing their specific technical implementations, I can say for sure that they are very interested in Stylus and see it as an important breakthrough. Not only that, but Stylus also provides a powerful tool for other developers, attracting them to build applications on the Robinhood chain. If Robinhood positions this chain as a leading platform for real-world asset tokenization (RWAs), many traditional brokerage firms may consider migrating to this chain, and these firms typically have years of accumulated legacy code. The compatibility and flexibility of Stylus make this migration simpler while also bringing more possibilities to the entire ecosystem.

Why Liquidity Fragmentation Remains a Major Unresolved Issue

Laura:

Do you think Arbitrum Stylus can help address the long-standing issue of liquidity fragmentation? In decentralized finance (DeFi), liquidity fragmentation has been an unresolved challenge. If users need to interact with other chains, for example, through bridging systems for interoperability, will Stylus help with that?

Steven:

Liquidity fragmentation is indeed an important issue, but I think it's a slightly different area. We must focus on solving this problem, and Option Labs is working in this direction, aiming to optimize user experience by connecting all Arbitrum chains and all blockchains, especially EVM chains. This will make it easier for users to interact across chains while allowing developers to create shared experiences.

Stylus, as a toolkit, is helpful for anything you want to build on the blockchain, but I'm not sure if it specifically benefits solving the liquidity fragmentation issue. The only benefit is that it allows you to verify zero-knowledge proofs (ZKP) on-chain. If bridging solutions need to use ZKP, which is often necessary, then there may be benefits in this regard.

Why MEV Capture is So Attractive for Robinhood

Laura:

I think another important factor that may be crucial for Robinhood is control over MEV.

Steven:

If we compare two options: operating on a public blockchain versus launching their own blockchain. For Robinhood, there are several compelling reasons to launch their own blockchain, one key point being MEV capture.

MEV refers to the additional profits generated by the ordering of blockchain transactions, typically captured by miners or validators. If Robinhood operates on a public blockchain, their MEV profits will flow to others. However, owning their own blockchain allows them to have complete control over MEV capture. This is very important. For example, they can use our recently launched Time Boost technology on Arbitrum One to optimize MEV capture or adopt other solutions developed by Dashboard. These specific technical choices will depend on their strategic planning. While I don’t have more details to share today, it’s certain that unique control over MEV can only be achieved on their own chain.

Another important reason is fee capture. If Robinhood operates on a public blockchain, they need to pay fees for every user transaction, and these fees ultimately go to others. If they launch their own blockchain, these fees can not only stay within their system but also be converted into a revenue source. In other words, Robinhood can not only reduce operational costs but also increase revenue by attracting more user transactions. This dual benefit—both MEV capture and fee capture—is a unique advantage of launching their own blockchain.

Why On-Chain Stock Tokenization Might Be the "Ultimate Prize" for Arbitrum

Laura:

In Robinhood's recent series of announcements, especially with the launch of the Robinhood chain, why do you think tokenized stocks are so attractive to your team?

Steven:

I think this is closely related to the Robinhood chain. Regarding the relationship between Arbitrum and the Robinhood chain, our stance is relatively neutral, but the issuance of tokenized stocks within the entire Arbitrum ecosystem is what excites us the most. Whether on Arbitrum One or on Robinhood's own chain for tokenized stock issuance, I believe this is what we truly look forward to as the "ultimate prize." Let me share my personal experience and why I think this is so important.

Back in 2013, when I first encountered smart contracts, what truly excited me was not the emerging verticals like NFTs (although they are interesting). What amazed me was the powerful potential of this technology to rebuild and transform existing systems. However, over the past decade, many people’s understanding of this vision has become muddled or even forgotten, leading to cryptocurrencies being viewed as a separate system rather than a tool for transforming existing systems.

Robinhood's approach gives me hope for a return to the original intent of cryptocurrency. They are not simply launching a new crypto product; they are fundamentally reshaping their core business. As Robinhood's CEO Vlad said, they are "rebuilding" their core products. In the event, they showcased the user experience of the Robinhood app in the U.S. and Europe. The two experiences look completely identical, and users may not even notice the difference. In fact, trades in the U.S. are completed through traditional brokerage firms, while trades in Europe are completed through the Arbitrum blockchain. This seamless transition in user experience is a huge breakthrough.

**This is not just about "launching another asset on-chain," but about deeply integrating *blockchain technology* with existing Web 2 infrastructure. Every user of the Robinhood app, whether they realize it or not, will have access to blockchain technology and cryptocurrencies. I believe the potential of this approach is very powerful.**

What It Means to Be Part of the Arbitrum Ecosystem

Laura:

I think Robinhood's decision may be influenced by an important factor, which is the impressive performance of Arbitrum's total locked value (TVL). Its TVL is slightly higher than Base, with both at similar levels. This makes me curious about what specific advantages Robinhood can gain from the existing Arbitrum ecosystem after launching on Arbitrum One and then launching its own chain.

Steven:

The liquidity you mentioned is key. Robinhood is a very powerful market participant, and I believe they won’t face significant challenges in driving liquidity on their own chain. But for a product like Robinhood, a deep liquidity network is indispensable. And Arbitrum One happens to provide that environment for them.

Looking ahead, even if these assets are ultimately issued on the Robinhood chain, I believe they will still have a profound impact on the entire Arbitrum ecosystem. The reason is that the Arbitrum ecosystem is already very mature and strong in the DeFi space. In addition to crypto-native assets, traditional financial assets like stocks and ETFs can now be introduced. These assets can integrate into existing protocols and operate as part of them. Especially through on-chain stock tokenization, users can utilize these assets for collateral, lending, and other operations, which will fundamentally change the functionality and potential of the entire ecosystem.

This transformation will not only benefit the Arbitrum ecosystem but will also impact the broader Ethereum ecosystem. Being able to issue these assets on-chain will significantly enhance the application scope of blockchain technology. I believe this innovation will continue to drive the development of Arbitrum One in both the short and long term.

How Stock Tokenization Will Change Investment Models and Its Potential Risks

Laura:

Perhaps you've seen Rob Hadick's tweet, or maybe you haven't, as you might be busy with many other things. He mentioned that combining stocks with the DeFi world could have profound implications, especially when these tokenized assets are used in different ways within DeFi. He also mentioned that this could raise some issues, such as the prices of tokenized stocks potentially deviating from the prices of their actual underlying assets.

After all, traditional stock markets do not operate 24/7 like crypto markets. What are your thoughts on this? What should people be aware of in this process?

Steven:

Actually, I haven’t seen his specific points, so I will answer from a more general perspective. If my answer doesn’t fully correspond to his argument, it’s because I haven’t seen his tweet.

First, as you mentioned, the current trading hours of traditional markets are 5 days a week, 24 hours a day, rather than a 24/7 trading model. Nevertheless, traditional markets do have after-hours trading mechanisms, but there is still significant room for improvement in overall efficiency. Deep liquidity and arbitrage opportunities are key factors in keeping prices consistent across different markets.

Of course, tokenizing stocks and introducing them into the blockchain market is indeed a brand new innovation. We need to deeply understand how to connect the dynamic relationship between the traditional financial system and blockchain. This is indeed a challenge, but we should not shy away from it.

In fact, the 24/7 trading model brings many benefits. For example, redemptions from traditional money market funds usually require a wait of 5 days, while stablecoins on-chain can achieve instant redemption. This is very important for large fund holders, as they can avoid losing interest income due to waiting.

Overall, stock tokenization will provide investors and ordinary users with a more convenient and efficient way to invest. Of course, the issue of price deviation may exist in the short term, but this is because we are in a technological breakthrough phase from nothing to something. As technology develops and the market matures, these issues will gradually be resolved.

Looking ahead, more and more assets will be issued directly on the blockchain. As Robinhood's CEO Vlad mentioned last week on CNBC, crypto technology will be at the core of the next financial revolution. From the initial paper records to computerization, and now to encryption, each transition comes with some friction. But we cannot remain stuck in past models. Blockchain and cryptocurrencies will become the financial infrastructure of the future, and I believe ultimately everyone will adapt and shift in this direction.

Why Arbitrum DAO Will Benefit from This Collaboration

Laura:

I have a question because usually such collaborative deals involve financial aspects. Can you talk about whether there are any financial incentives in the collaboration with Robinhood? Or can you share some related information?

Steven:

Due to policy restrictions, I cannot disclose the specific details of the collaboration. However, I can say that this collaboration is very beneficial for both parties. It will not only help Robinhood expand its product range but will also bring significant value to Arbitrum DAO. The DAO can enhance community building through these integrations while also gaining economic benefits from each launched project.

Liquidity Fragmentation is Easier to Solve Than Most People Think

Laura:

I want to return to the liquidity fragmentation issue we discussed earlier. As these areas converge, this issue may become more pronounced. Do you have any particular solutions that excite you? Or what aspects do you think need more attention? Overall, how do you think this issue will be resolved?

Steven:

This is something I have been thinking about, and perhaps my perspective is somewhat controversial. Many people believe liquidity fragmentation is a technical problem that can be solved by designing complex protocols by tech teams. But I think the technical issue only accounts for 10%, while the real core is the 90% user experience (UX) and wallet support issues. Even with the most complex protocols, if wallets cannot simplify user operations and provide a unified environment, these technological innovations will not truly take effect.

Of course, we can also optimize protocol design further. There are already some good protocols that can alleviate liquidity fragmentation issues, although they are not perfect yet, they can still drive the process. However, the real need is to enhance user experience. For instance, the current experience of using blockchain is like the internet without a browser. Users need to input complex addresses for interactions and complete various cumbersome operations, which is very unfriendly for ordinary users.

We are working to build tools similar to a "browser" to simplify the complexity of user interactions with blockchain. For example, imagine if a window popped up on YouTube asking whether you want to watch through AWS or ECP today; this would make no sense to users. Users care about the application experience, not the underlying technical details. Therefore, I believe redesigning the front-end experience is key to solving the problem, and it is an achievable goal, but no one has really done it yet.

We are launching some preliminary solutions to drive this process, and we will release more related information in the coming weeks. By integrating existing resources and technologies, I believe we can address most of the challenges in liquidity fragmentation.

Where Will the Fusion of Crypto and Traditional Finance Go Next

Laura:

I think you might be involved in some very interesting conversations right now, even though you may not be able to disclose too many details. However, can you talk about the trends you are observing, or based on these conversations, which direction you think the industry will develop in the short term? We have noticed that many companies have recently begun to enter the same field and are competing from different angles, possibly with different advantages. Meanwhile, many people's long-held view of the emergence of a "financial internet" is becoming a reality. I remember someone mentioning on Bankless that you often talk about some of these points. We seem to be witnessing this process in a slow manner, which may take ten years or even longer.

Based on your current observations, what do you think will happen in the short term? What are some interesting ways the two worlds are combining that ordinary people may not yet realize?

Steven:

First of all, I do often say this, and I think there is some misunderstanding in the use of terminology. For example, no one says, "I work in centralized finance"; finance is finance. And blockchain is not a marginalized technology that only a few can access. It is actually a tool that can reconstruct the entire financial system, and ultimately it will integrate into our financial system and become a part of it. I believe this will become increasingly evident over time, and blockchain will play a crucial role.

Entering this field is always difficult; everyone is waiting for a pioneer to break through the first barrier before others can follow. Therefore, we now see many smart people and large institutions saying, "I thought this was impossible, but since they can do it, we can try too." This is both an incentive and an observation of the actions of pioneers. Meanwhile, these institutions are also studying existing token standards, thinking about how to collaborate or repurpose these technologies and build open standards based on them. These are all important conversations happening in the industry right now. I believe there is almost no large financial institution without a team researching how to integrate blockchain technology. The situation five years ago was completely different; back then, you had to convince them that it was worth discussing, and now the opposite is true.

With changes in the regulatory environment and significant moves taken by forward-looking companies like Robinhood, these provide references for the decisions of other institutions. As the saying goes, "No one gets fired for choosing IBM." As blockchain technology gradually becomes mainstream and widely accepted, institutions will realize that building on blockchain not only provides better services for users but also reduces costs and enhances profitability. This is a win-win choice. Moreover, with the actions of pioneers, others will feel more confident to join.

Additionally, some companies, like BlackRock, Franklin Templeton, and WisdomTree, have already developed products on Arbitrum. As for what this means for ordinary users, returning to my earlier point, the most exciting aspect is that users no longer need to deal with complex technical details. For instance, in the past, people might have thought that to use blockchain features on Robinhood, users would need to download wallets, back up seed phrases, connect RPC servers, etc. But what we see today is that blockchain technology can serve both tech-savvy users and ordinary users, providing a more seamless experience.

I believe empowering users with self-sovereignty is very important, meaning users can transfer assets to their own wallets at any time or choose other custodial methods. This is a major core advantage of blockchain. However, I also don’t think the next billion users will use blockchain through cumbersome operations like today. We need a more user-friendly experience to truly achieve this goal.

Defending Ethereum and Critiquing L2 Detractors

Laura:

Over the past year and a half, there has been a viewpoint that L2s like Arbitrum are "parasites" of Ethereum. While this view may not be accepted by everyone, its core meaning is that L2s have siphoned off some value from the Ethereum main chain, such as transaction fees. Meanwhile, we have also seen that the "ultrasound money theory" has not fully realized its expected effects, and these changes are redefining the landscape of the industry.

I want to ask, during a recent event, AJ, Vitalik, and Johann appeared together, and it seems that the Ethereum Foundation's attitude towards L2 is changing. So, what does this moment mean for the Ethereum community? What is the relationship between Ethereum and L2? Additionally, what is Vitalik's attitude towards DeFi?

Steven:

I believe the core values of the Ethereum community are not weakened by this. In fact, I was one of the earliest to publicly share relevant details, and I can tell you that Vitalik is very supportive of the current progress. His active participation in events has demonstrated this. While I can’t speak for him, based on my conversations with him, he is very excited about the current developments in the industry and sees it as a significant victory for Ethereum.

For those questioning the relationship between L1 and L2, especially those who think, "Do we really need L2? Why not put all functionalities on L1?" I think their perspective may be too narrow. If you think the future of the crypto industry is merely what we saw a week ago, then you might feel there’s no need to develop L2. But in reality, the industry's development requires greater capacity. Institutions are entering the blockchain space on a large scale and have already expanded to 32 countries globally, building core applications on this technology. We need a scalable solution, and the development roadmap for L2 is the only path that can meet future demands.

For example, if you build a new road on a congested single-lane highway, some might say, "Why build so many lanes? Traffic isn’t that congested now." But in reality, a new city is forming, and those lanes will be completely filled in the future. We cannot keep building new lanes every year; we need a long-term solution. Through the development roadmap of L2, we can shift from a single L1 platform to a more decentralized and efficient L2 ecosystem. Although this process is not easy, once we solve the interoperability issues, we can achieve long-term sustainable development.

The Ethereum community has already crossed this hurdle; although there are still some issues to resolve, we have basically built a foundation that supports future development. For instance, Robinhood recently chose Ethereum as the core platform for its blockchain technology and launched crypto trading features based on Arbitrum. This is not just my personal view; Robinhood has also made it clear that they chose Ethereum because it has the ecosystem that best fits their business, and Arbitrum is the best technical solution to achieve this goal.