Dialogue ZetaChain: The mainnet is about to be launched, and cross-chain technology and applications are opening a new chapter

Guest: ZetaChain

Interview: BlockBeats

In the past few years, cross-chain bridges have been like moving "armored trucks," with almost all mainstream projects having been "robbed" by hackers. The first and second largest hacking incidents in DeFi history are related to cross-chain bridges. According to SlowMist Hacked statistics, there were 15 security incidents involving cross-chain bridges in 2022, with losses reaching up to $1.21 billion, accounting for 32.45% of the total losses in 2022, highlighting the destructive power of vulnerabilities in cross-chain bridges.

Current solutions have made wrapped assets and centralized vaults points of exposure, overly rely on centralized intermediaries, are only suitable for specific scenarios, and require modifications to the underlying blockchain. Wrapping tokens and using a wormhole-like bridge to transfer the value of tokens between two different blockchains provides an ideal attack medium for some attackers who specifically exploit these security flaws.

At the same time, how to build bridges between heterogeneous chains remains a problem that has not been truly solved. An increasing number of traders and investors are "returning to basics," going back to the Bitcoin ecosystem, but they face a troublesome question: how can they have smooth transactions between EVM-compatible chains like Ethereum and non-EVM heterogeneous chains?

Against this backdrop, ZetaChain, which has completed a $27 million equity financing, has entered the community's view. It is reported that ZetaChain can achieve compatibility between Ethereum smart contracts and the Bitcoin network. More importantly, ZetaChain does not wrap Bitcoin into another token but completes a "native BTC swap" based on omnichain, which can also avoid most of the current hacking incidents.

Related Reading: ZetaChain: A Smart Contract Platform Compatible with Bitcoin, a Dark Horse in the Cross-Chain Track

BlockBeats conducted an exclusive interview with Brandon Truong, Chief Product Officer of ZetaChain, to deeply discuss ZetaChain's development history, thoughts and views on cross-chain, and his understanding of SocialFi as a former social application developer.

Stanford Dropout, Social Entrepreneurship to Joining ZetaChain

BlockBeats: First, please introduce your background and what prompted you to enter the crypto industry and join the ZetaChain team?

Brandon: I spent a few years at Stanford University but later dropped out to co-found a social blogging application company for teenagers with my brother, which was acquired at the end of 2020. During that time, I considered returning to school because I hadn't found the right opportunity, but just as the 2021 academic year was about to start, I had the fortune of meeting Ankur Nandwani, a core member of ZetaChain. At that time, I was providing him with some product design consulting services, and this pleasant collaboration became my entry point into the cryptocurrency world. I had one year left until graduation, but Ankur persuaded me to leave early.

Image source: Internet

When I first joined, it was right at the peak of the crypto market, but then the market started to decline. However, I still found the crypto field very attractive. I previously worked in the social space, which was full of viral strategies and game theory, and I found many similarities with cryptocurrency, but the direct connection to money made it seem more unique.

I entered this industry from a product perspective. Ankur showed me many crypto applications, but the user experience was not ideal when performing cross-chain operations. The current problem mainly lies in product design. There are many L1 and L2 solutions on the market, and these different terminologies are already confusing enough. When users try to perform actual operations, they often cannot find a clear cross-chain solution and have to find the right path themselves.

In contrast, the user experience in the social field is exceptionally smooth. Whether it's TikTok or other applications, it seems that every detail is meticulously crafted for users, allowing them to easily integrate. In comparison, the experience in the cryptocurrency field seems relatively rigid.

As someone with a product design background, I found this very intriguing. Although these blockchain technologies are widely discussed, their actual user experience is not satisfactory. This was also a major reason for my decision to join the ZetaChain team.

On the other hand, the development in the social field is rapid and ever-changing. You might design and test a new application within a month, but if its usage doesn't meet expectations, it could quickly be eliminated. Therefore, I wanted to enter a more stable and long-term field.

BlockBeats: Why didn't you consider joining a cross-chain bridge team, like Multichain, at that time? Even though they are facing some issues now.

Brandon: Purely cross-chain products focus more on transaction volume TVL, and they evaluate from a trading perspective. Although everyone is excited about cryptocurrency, when you delve deeper into these products, you find that the actual number of users is not large. Most people just buy these tokens as investments.

Our core member Ankur previously led the product team at Coinbase, and he shares the same view. Our core philosophy is to focus on real user numbers, not just TVL. We care about the practical applicability of the product, thinking from the perspective of web3 applications, and addressing the limitations caused by the lack of interoperability in current web3 applications, providing solutions along this line.

This philosophy determines which chains we choose to collaborate with and which applications we want to support. At the same time, we also place a high value on the developer experience, striving to make all processes more efficient and convenient. How to make the user experience of blockchain dApps smoother is also our core innovation and solution direction.

Reshaping the Cross-Chain Ecosystem: Connecting POW Tokens, Deepening DeFi Experience

BlockBeats: What is ZetaChain's position in the entire crypto ecosystem, especially compared to modular chains or cross-chain bridges like Cosmos and Polkadot?

Brandon: I think the core function of most current cross-chain bridges ultimately boils down to transferring stablecoins. Currently, Circle is performing exceptionally well, and I believe more people will adopt Circle's free stablecoin cross-chain transfer solution.

Pure cross-chain messaging does seem overly complicated. Our goal is to support dApp developers, incentivizing them to create applications with better experiences, allowing users to more easily integrate into the cryptocurrency ecosystem, download wallets, and interact seamlessly with various dApps.

Not only applications on ZetaChain, but theoretically, users should not be troubled by questions like where to cross-chain in any application. For end users, these operations should be abstracted as much as possible, and functions like portfolio management and NFT management can be automatically completed in the background. Therefore, ZetaChain's positioning in applications is as a universal cross-chain application platform—Omnichain smart contract Layer1.

As a developer, if you want to target all blockchain users rather than just users on a single chain, then ZetaChain should be your best choice. Cosmos and Polkadot are still independent ecosystems, while ZetaChain aims to connect all ecosystems, allowing all users/assets to circulate easily.

BlockBeats: Many people's interest in ZetaChain stems from the possibility of incorporating POW tokens like Dogecoin and Bitcoin into its ecosystem. Why choose to connect these POW chains and introduce their tokens?

Brandon: I think this is key to user demand. Currently, there are millions of Bitcoin holders, most of whom have Bitcoin wallets or hardware wallets. But when you ask them how to use Bitcoin, many are at a loss because very few products truly support Bitcoin's application in DeFi.

Of course, some solutions like WBTC allow you to use Bitcoin in DeFi, but it is not real Bitcoin. Many Bitcoin holders want to trade on the Bitcoin network while also hoping to benefit from it, such as through lending. Therefore, our goal is to bridge this demand gap, allowing Bitcoin users to earn while using native Bitcoin through their hardware wallets.

This model is also applicable to other currencies, such as Dogecoin. Since Dogecoin is essentially a branch of Bitcoin, such bridging is feasible, but we are still exploring the specific launch method. This project is expected to be realized after going live on the mainnet.

ZVM: Innovative Cross-Chain Technology Logic Center Makes Transactions More Convenient and Cheaper

BlockBeats: The ZetaChain VM (virtual machine) has now become a hot topic, providing a complete solution for multiple POW chains in the entire decentralized bridging process. Could you briefly explain ZetaChain's technical architecture and its uniqueness?

Brandon: We currently refer to it as ZVM, and the name may change. On this EVM-compatible layer, you can deploy contracts that can accept transaction instructions from other chains. This means you can use your own Bitcoin wallet, and when sending Bitcoin, you just need to attach a small note to trigger a contract on ZetaChain. This contract can also write data to other chains, enabling direct transactions between Bitcoin and Ethereum, all in one go without intermediate steps.

In contrast, most existing cross-chain solutions, such as pure messaging solutions, require you to deploy contracts on each chain. Special logic needs to be written to pass messages, and this messaging itself is quite expensive. For example, swapping stablecoins on Stargate might cost $60 to transfer some USDC, which is clearly not an ideal solution.

BlockBeats: So ZetaChain provides a unique cross-chain interaction solution through its innovative virtual machine. Users can easily trigger contracts on ZetaChain using their Bitcoin wallets and achieve direct transactions between Bitcoin and Ethereum without extra steps or high fees. This stands in stark contrast to currently popular cross-chain solutions. I'm curious, does this contract actually help native Bitcoin perform a kind of "virtual wrapping" on the Ethereum network?

Brandon: Not exactly; Bitcoin remains on the Bitcoin chain, and Ethereum remains on Ethereum. ZetaChain simply provides you with a platform to add interaction logic. You can think of it as a Uniswap DEX, but it trades native Bitcoin and Ethereum instead of their wrapped versions. In this basic case, you could also choose to use a cross-chain bridge. However, when interactions involve three or more chains, ZetaChain's solution begins to highlight its value.

BlockBeats: It seems that ZetaChain has achieved a kind of "logical wrapping" or interaction logic through contracts, allowing native Bitcoin and Ethereum to trade on a unified DEX without actually transferring them to other chains. I'm curious, does this interaction mean that ZetaChain adopts a more decentralized approach while reducing the complexity of cross-chain transactions?

Brandon: Indeed, the complexity is greatly reduced. If you execute a transaction across three chains, you must broadcast this transaction on each chain. Doing so incurs exponentially increasing costs. Nowadays, cross-chain implementations either rely on messaging or bridging technology. You cannot truly achieve a synchronized state across multiple chains and execute transactions everywhere. But with ZetaChain, you can manage assets across three or four chains, with all logic processed at the central node of ZetaChain.

BlockBeats: From your explanation, I understand that ZetaChain acts as a logical center or hub, concentrating all logic processing while assets remain on their original chains. This architecture clearly brings some advantages, but I still want to know: how does ZetaChain, as this "central hub," avoid network centralization?

Brandon: Yes, but it's important to emphasize that the "center" I refer to is ZetaChain's smart contracts acting as a logical center to handle complex Bridge+Swap logic, not the centralization of the network itself. In fact, anyone can deploy Curve on ZetaChain. We have a tutorial in our documentation. For experienced developers, it may only take a day or two to create a full-chain trading pool with lower slippage, lower fees, and faster transactions.

BlockBeats: ZetaChain centers around its smart contracts to handle complex Bridge+Swap logic, rather than network centralization. But I want to dig deeper into what the core technology behind ZetaChain is. How does it achieve cross-chain interaction while maintaining the independence of each chain?

Brandon: The foundational network of ZetaChain is built on the Cosmos SDK and uses a proof-of-stake mechanism. It also includes an EVM-compatible smart contract layer. On this layer, you can maintain state, execute smart contracts, etc., just like any other EVM. But the real highlight of ZetaChain is that the network itself (e.g., validating nodes) can reach consensus to observe transactions on other chains and can write transactions as if they were on that chain, signing transactions like a regular wallet.

ZetaChain's cross-chain functionality means you can actually pass messages from one chain to another. At the same time, contracts on ZetaChain can also achieve this read-write functionality. This means you have a contract that can receive transactions from Bitcoin and can also perform write operations. It can also transfer Ethereum assets to the mainnet or Polygon.

Image source: ZetaChain

BlockBeats: These technical details are very cool, especially the point that ZetaChain can observe and write transactions on external chains. Is this part the biggest technical challenge you face? I've heard that due to these technical difficulties, the mainnet launch plan has been delayed, which has also attracted considerable attention in the Chinese community.

Brandon: Indeed, the read-write operations across chains are our core technical challenges and our unique aspect compared to other blockchain projects. As for the mainnet launch, we have resolved most of the key technical issues and are currently focusing on determining how to launch the mainnet, how to enhance support for other chains, and how to assist developers in building applications based on these features.

We have never officially announced the exact date for the mainnet launch. We are continuously developing and have provided a testnet for users to experience, such as ZetaLabs Cross-Chain Swap. Regarding the postponement of the mainnet launch, in my view, it is based on misunderstandings or speculations. We expect to officially launch the mainnet in the coming months.

Future Vision: Technological Progress and Global Community Co-Building

BlockBeats: Can you share the specific launch time for ZetaChain's mainnet? After the launch, what new plans and actions do you have?

Brandon: The specific launch time has not yet been determined; we will announce it at the appropriate time. To ensure the security of the network, we are conducting multiple rounds of audits. At the same time, we are collaborating with many developers, aiming to have multiple applications ready for user experience immediately after the mainnet launch.

I anticipate that the main development in the future will focus on the application layer. Whether it's cross-chain primitives, lending, decentralized exchanges, or NFT markets, our goal is to provide users with a seamless experience. In addition, we plan to support more chains, such as the highly anticipated Dogecoin.

BlockBeats: Does ZetaChain have specific incentive measures or projects to attract more developers to join? At the same time, what type of developers or applications do you hope to attract?

Brandon: We have a continuous developer grant program, and interested developers can check the relevant information and apply. We welcome all types of developers and applications. While DeFi projects are very attractive, there are already many in the market. I would prefer to see innovations in areas like cross-chain identity management, social applications, and DAO management.

BlockBeats: What is the application you most look forward to or envision for ZetaChain?

Brandon: I hope the applications can integrate social elements while allowing users to hardly perceive the existence of blockchain; this kind of user experience is what we pursue. Currently, if a dApp has 50,000 to 100,000 users, that is already quite good. But compared to social applications, even having 1 million users still seems insufficient. Therefore, I hope to see more applications guiding the public into the cryptocurrency field. At the same time, deep DeFi is also crucial for the crypto community, such as more optimized trading and market mechanisms. While both are important, they are entirely different directions.

BlockBeats: What would you like to say to developers and users in the Chinese community?

Brandon: We recently open-sourced the validator code and entered the third phase of testing for validator devices. We hope the tech community can contribute more to us. Although ZetaChain may have seemed relatively closed before, we now offer more open resources for everyone to try and learn. Our team is spread across the globe, and we sincerely look forward to more friends from Asia joining us. Additionally, we have launched a large security vulnerability bounty program and welcome everyone to participate.

For users, we release new ZetaChain applications every week, and we hope everyone can try them out and provide us with valuable feedback.

Observations on SocialFi from a Veteran Social Application Developer

BlockBeats: As a former social application developer, what are your thoughts on developing social applications in the cryptocurrency field?

Brandon: Many current social applications have derived from the cryptocurrency field and are trying to transition into social. They attempt to forcibly apply cryptocurrency mechanisms to social networks, which is clearly challenging. Frankly speaking, most people in the world do not genuinely care about blockchain. However, if we introduce it in a different way, blockchain might bring some novel elements. For example, platforms like Venmo introduce some social elements, allowing you to see others' transaction dynamics in the real world, thus gaining some insights into their lives. I think this is an interesting way to interact.

But if it's purely blockchain, like seeing your friends trading on Uniswap, it loses its fun. I believe some metaverse projects may introduce more cryptocurrency elements, such as cross-chain assets and seeing others' cross-chain activities. I think games like Roblox might be researching this.

BlockBeats: Its focus might be more on gamification?

Brandon: Currently, Roblox is not just a game; it resembles a social network. People go online just to play various games with friends. Therefore, when people are online, if the game starts to introduce cross-chain assets and cross-chain markets, users might trade just like they would trade USDC or USD. But the underlying layer can provide some very interesting elements, such as being able to transfer your Roblox skins to Fortnite, which could be very appealing.

BlockBeats: What are your thoughts on the Lens protocol?

Brandon: I think Lens might be doing some cool things in app expansion, like Roblox might adopt Lens or integrate it. Then you could make these identities transferable. I have some reservations about the idea of having all identities on one chain and all social aspects. I think there might be something broader like ENS.

BlockBeats: Meaning different chains have different IDs, regardless of which chain you are on?

Brandon: Yes, perhaps there is some verification network behind it. I don't know what it would look like, but I guess there could be something like Space ID that could achieve this. These social applications seem to lack users or use cases. I believe Roblox currently does not want to use Lens because the latter is still in its early stages, and the applications are not mature. Additionally, the decentralized philosophy of Lens may also conflict with Roblox. In comparison, Lens could consider integrating with a more decentralized ENS. Another issue with the transferability of assets between different things is that you need to adopt new designs from both games (projects). Developers must redesign all skins for your game, even if it's an NFT. Perhaps there is a way to abstract it so that developers do not have to build new graphics or implement new UIs for user asset transfers. Projects like Celestia might help, as they can enhance data availability.

BlockBeats: If protocols like Lens were incorporated into applications like Roblox or Sandbox, would they become more popular?

Brandon: I think that's a very interesting interaction. But I look forward to their interaction with applications like Roblox and Snapchat. Because once you introduce the transferability of cross-chain assets, you can easily have markets or tipping. However, Roblox users currently cannot accept Bitcoin tips because they have not yet incorporated social elements. On the other hand, I think social applications still seem to be in their early stages. The Lens protocol is a very good direction, but it may take many years to complete.

On TikTok, people are starting to do random tasks during live streams and receive gifts. Then TikTok takes a large portion of that income. If the crypto field can tap into this market, allowing users to live stream from any source and directly receive tips, achieving decentralization in all of this, there is still a lot of infrastructure that needs to be improved to realize it.

BlockBeats: How long do you think it will take to complete such infrastructure construction?

Brandon: I think some corresponding infrastructure has already seen some success. ZetaChain will later launch some products aimed at enhancing interoperability, as well as ChainLink's CCIP, etc. It may take a few months, a year, or longer to develop some interesting things based on this infrastructure. Because this also requires product experimentation, and you don't know what will have enough virality.

BlockBeats: The internet or Web2 truly took off after significant breakthroughs in hardware rules, like the iPhone camera. So, will there be another hardware breakthrough that provides some impetus for cryptocurrency adoption? For example, a built-in wallet in phones, like what Solana is doing.

Brandon: I'm somewhat looking forward to Apple Vision Pro. Currently, it seems that the metaverse or online virtual worlds may promote greater adoption of cryptocurrency. I can imagine people streaming in a TikTok-style manner within it, which could be more immersive, to the extent that all content becomes part of this ecosystem. That would be very meaningful. Ideally, platform governance could be decentralized.

BlockBeats: Recently, we have seen the so-called "Layer3 wave," such as OP stack followed by ZK stack, and now Starknet has just launched its AppChains. Do you think these pose a threat to other Layer1 chains?

Brandon: I think some of the things that other Layer1 development teams are researching are very interesting, like different ways of handling blockchains. I believe the real threat is the fragmentation between blockchains. When someone enters cryptocurrency, they have no idea which blockchain to use. I just associate it with data chains. However, there are currently no projects doing very well in this regard. For example, users operate on OP Stack, but they are not very clear on how to reach Arbitrum. But functionally, EVM is like another Ethereum. There may be some other performance improvements, but the user experience is exactly the same. My guess is that among all these L2s and L3s, maybe one or two will survive and gain significant adoption. The current problem is that everyone has seen Arbitrum's success and wants to create a new Arbitrum. But most of them encounter the scale problem of insufficient users and may ultimately fail.

It is worth noting that DYDX has a large trading volume because many market makers and ordinary users use it for trading. This is a cool use case, and an AppChain like DEX makes complete sense. As for new superchains, I don't even know if we have enough users to need that many chains.

BlockBeats: ZetaChain has been active in various crypto activities globally. Can you share your observations and feelings about ZetaChain's recent participation in activities, and how these activities will influence ZetaChain's future plans?

Brandon: Indeed, we gained a lot of insights and inspirations at the recent Token2049 conference in Singapore. In particular, the three events we co-hosted with Sky9 Capital, ZetaChain, CyberConnect, EthStorage, Chainbase, OP Crypto, and Moledao—"DApp x GrowthCon," "Sky9 Web3 Kick-off Party," and "Erase borders, Build the Future"—were very well received and attracted a large number of industry experts and investors.

Additionally, during the Korea Blockchain Week in September, we also collaborated with Klaytn, ABGA, and others to host various offline events like "CertiK KBW Cafe," "DSRV Builder's House," and "Grand Party in KBW." We are very much looking forward to collaborating with other leading companies in the industry to jointly promote the development of cryptocurrency and blockchain technology. These activities provided us with valuable opportunities to communicate and collaborate with other leaders in the industry, which is crucial for our long-term development strategy.

We have learned many lessons from this. Compared to some early crypto communication solutions, value bridging methods like Circle and CCIP may gain widespread adoption. For us, we are not only focused on EVM chains but also on networks like Bitcoin and Dogecoin, as they represent greater market potential. Therefore, we expect to expand to more non-EVM chains over time.

Some of the applications we are developing related to Bitcoin are very promising. I believe that if we can launch a protocol for Bitcoin lending, it will be a huge highlight, and many people will be willing to participate and invest their Bitcoin in it.