Exclusive Interview with Ethereum Foundation Executive Director Hsiao-Wei Wang: Growth Journey, Upgrade Outlook, and EF Operational Strategy

Source: ETHPanda

ETHPanda Talk is a program focused on how to build a better digital future based on Ethereum. We invite outstanding Ethereum builders to share their motivations for building on Ethereum, the projects they are working on, and their experiences and insights, including their visions for the future. By uncovering the stories and ideas behind these efforts, we hope to bring diverse perspectives and inspiration to encourage everyone to participate in the construction of Ethereum.

In this episode of ETHPanda Talk, our guest Hsiao-Wei Wang joined the Ethereum Foundation as a researcher in 2017 and has been working internally at the foundation for nearly 8 years, participating in multiple significant Ethereum upgrades, including The Merge, Shapella, and Dencun. In April 2025, she just took on the role of Co-Executive Director of the Ethereum Foundation, marking her first external interview since assuming the position.

In this episode, we discussed Hsiao-Wei's personal growth journey, the details of the Ethereum technical roadmap, highlights and challenges in community building, and her work at the Ethereum Foundation. We hope to provide new ideas and thoughts for everyone.

01. Hsiao-Wei Wang's Personal Growth Journey

Bruce:

You initially joined as a researcher and grew step by step, so I believe many viewers are interested in your personal growth journey. You mentioned entering the industry in 2017; were there any important people or moments that brought you here? What motivated you to join Ethereum, and what can you share about your thoughts along the way?

Hsiao-Wei:

My personal background is in computer science, and after graduating with my master's degree, I entered the telecommunications field, based in Taiwan. One day, during an internal training session, the topic happened to be blockchain, mainly discussing Bitcoin.

In 2016, there were not many blockchain startups in Taiwan; most were exchanges that allowed people to buy Bitcoin. I was contemplating whether it was time to switch careers when a college classmate told me that their company was about to establish a blockchain research department, so I submitted my resume. Later, I was fortunate to meet a former colleague from my previous job, who was also a former colleague at the Ethereum Foundation, Chen Chang-wu (now at ImToken). He went to the Ethereum Foundation as a researcher. Around 2017, the foundation was hiring researchers in Asia, so I applied. The foundation represented a very special opportunity for me because I had learned about Ethereum and experienced its community culture at my previous company. I felt that besides Bitcoin, there were many innovations in blockchain. Ethereum was particularly appealing, so I joined the Ethereum Foundation.

Bruce:

In your years as a researcher, what have you done or learned that made you feel like you suddenly leveled up, achieving a significant breakthrough or sense of accomplishment?

Hsiao-Wei:

As an Ethereum researcher, about half of our research gets adopted, while the other half may not. There were many changes to the roadmap for the Beacon Chain. I felt that it wasn't until the Beacon Chain went live that we finally found a definitive path. Whether it was PoS or the integration of Sharding, we found a cohesive route. Previous research wasn't wasted; some of it was applied, but at that time, there was a sense of reaping the rewards after enduring hardships.

Bruce:

We also know that Ethereum completed The Merge in 2022, officially transitioning from PoW to PoS, a challenge often likened to changing engines mid-flight. After being involved throughout the process, what do you think was the biggest challenge at that time? Are there any lesser-known stories?

Hsiao-Wei:

Because we already had many things on-chain and many people involved in the project, coordinating human resources was truly the biggest challenge.

Here's a little Easter egg: The Deposit Contract has many leading zeros because it is an address that everyone will use for several years to come. The person responsible for deploying it spent some time calculating to generate this unique address to reduce the risk of phishing scams. We also took measures to prevent other scammers from using the Deposit to defraud people. So, we put some thought into generating this contract address with many leading zeros.

(Deposit Contract: 0x00000000219ab540356cBB839Cbe05303d7705Fa)

Bruce:

I remember there was a panda meme related to The Merge; how did you come up with that?

Hsiao-Wei:

It's a Dragon Ball reference. At that time, I was preparing a presentation to introduce The Merge, and I was thinking about how to help everyone understand that we weren't just destroying the original chain but merging it with the Beacon Chain, which contains the Consensus Layer. I happened to find a panda merging meme image, featuring a black bear and a white bear. This was a work by a Thai artist. We used it as a metaphor, and it became very popular. The Merge Panda meme So, ethPandaOps was established at that time; they were a very strong DevOps team behind The Merge, responsible for Ethereum network operations, and they later named themselves ethPandaOps.

Bruce:

In recent years, we've seen significant fluctuations in the industry, and there are often so-called Ethereum killers. During this process, have you ever felt emo or questioned the value of what we are doing? If you have felt down, how do you persist?

Hsiao-Wei:

Some people use blockchain technology for negative purposes, which can create a very negative perception among the public, leading the general public to view crypto as somewhat speculative. In this industry, we hope for technological advancement, and this phenomenon is a sad thing for those of us who have a better vision.

Fortunately, my colleagues around me share a similar atmosphere. Of course, education is also important, but we may not be able to change the negative impressions of the public towards blockchain overnight. However, if there are good things happening on blockchain or Ethereum, we hope to promote them; that’s what we can do.

Bruce:

I also feel that choosing to be with builders is very important, and the environment matters a lot. But if you feel down, you can huddle together for warmth, do some research and experimentation together, and gradually it might get better.

Hsiao-Wei:

But another aspect I want to emphasize is that sometimes you need to step out of the ivory tower and listen to some negative opinions. Because recently, we have been making efforts in this area.

02. Ethereum Technical Roadmap and Future Development

Bruce:

We often see Vitalik updating and releasing a complex roadmap filled with various terms every year. Can you introduce how the roadmap is designed, how it is determined, and how it is advanced? What is the general process?

Vitalik's Ethereum Roadmap in 2023 Hsiao-Wei:

Vitalik has been releasing this diagram for more than three years. Last year, we urged him to release it, and he chose to write six articles: "Possible futures of the Ethereum protocol."

His technical roadmap serves as a high-level guide, indicating the direction we want to take. Internally, there are three plans: A, B, and C, and which one is easier to succeed is something developers and researchers need to consider this year. He provides a high-level idea, which also serves as a channel for community communication. However, the actual development progress and direction are still determined by the core developers of our community. When he draws this diagram, it is quite simple, and researchers' ideas are incorporated. How to implement this roadmap later presents different options.

Many EIPs may have existed for 3 to 5 years before being put on-chain. A proposal is first made, and the time for it to be adopted can be very long. Perhaps it was only added a few weeks ago, like EIP-7702, which was adopted relatively late.

There is an EIP repository on Ethereum's GitHub where anyone can submit an EIP proposal using a template. The content should specify how you want to change the protocol. When this proposal receives considerable attention and review, it has the opportunity to be discussed in the ACD (All Core Devs weekly meeting), allowing all client developers and researchers to discuss it.

Typically, someone who particularly supports this EIP will attend the meeting to present, and others will provide feedback and signals. If this EIP has a significant voice, it is more likely to be adopted. It goes from discussion in ACD to the final EIP Inclusion meeting. Last month, because Pectra was about to hard fork in early May, everyone had already started planning the content for the next hard fork.

When an EIP is very likely to be adopted, we tag it as CFI (Consider for Inclusion) to signal the industry to pay attention.

In summary, Vitalik sets the general direction but does not delve into very specific content, leaving it to researchers to push these directions forward. At the same time, anyone can submit an EIP to inform the community of desired changes, which are then discussed in ACD, improved based on community feedback, and finally finalized and released as an EIP. After that, various client teams begin developing the changes and deploy them at the scheduled time.

Hsiao-Wei:

The main organizers of ACD over the years have been people from the Ethereum Foundation, and the EF is also considering how much leadership we need to provide. Each hard fork is different. For example, during the Pectra upgrade, the core developers each had their own user requests for adoption, so the final scope was quite broad. However, for Fusaka, there was a consensus that we needed PeerDAS, and everyone had a more cohesive agreement, which simplified the process significantly. Each coordination is different.

Bruce:

This process is very interesting; it doesn't operate like a company but is driven by the entire community participating in a widely impactful upgrade. What changes do you expect from the Pectra upgrade in May? Which EIPs do you have the highest hopes for?

Hsiao-Wei:

Each EIP has its own purpose, but the one that will have the most significant impact on developers and applications is EIP-7702. It allows you to set a code for your original EOA address; if the original code unit is empty, you can change its value. It only provides functionality, but what the code is can have a very broad design. We hope this change can unlock some designs for account abstraction, paving a broad path. How you design this AA contract on Layer 1 and how you design it on Layer 2 have many options.

The Ethereum Foundation is also actively negotiating a standard that can be universally accepted in the industry. Of course, this is very interesting; we hope for more designs and innovations. At the same time, we also hope that everyone uses safe contracts.

Bruce:

I've recently been looking at EIP-7702, and I think the potential is indeed vast. Previously, we had to click various pop-ups, but now they can be merged into one transaction. This includes Gas Fee and sponsorship payments, but I also feel that if it is too flexible, it may bring some security risks. What are your thoughts on how we can better protect security?

Hsiao-Wei:

First of all, the AA contract must undergo a complete audit. The foundation also provides implementation cases to enhance trust in using contracts. Many teams are integrating this functionality into wallets.

Bruce:

Actually, scaling Ethereum is a very long-term topic. We often see terms or concepts like sharding and ZK. From your perspective, could you briefly introduce what ZK rollup and sharding are, what important work is involved, and what the main challenges are?

Hsiao-Wei:

The concept of sharding actually comes from database design. In the past, we designed an open main chain with some shard chains underneath, but now we have a rollup-centric roadmap that goes upwards, with Layer 2 above. So we can see that sharding and ZK rollup are both scaling Layer 1 development. Recently, the main focus is on how to increase the number of blobs. Blobs are the data layer of Ethereum, and once enhanced, Layer 2 can regularly transmit hash values to Layer 1, and we hope to increase the frequency of this.

So, if we scale Layer 1, it actually helps Layer 2 as well; the two together enhance the overall output of Ethereum.

Bruce:

Where are the main challenges? What can be done to accelerate this development progress?

Hsiao-Wei:

Currently, the main goal is testing. We have many clients. In terms of research, the design of cryptographic algorithms is nearly complete, but the network layer presents engineering challenges. More testing and parameter adjustments are needed. Perhaps internal testing for one client is fine, but interoperability may present some issues. Therefore, the primary goal is regular testing. So, it’s also good for everyone to spend some time testing the testnet.

03. Development of the Ethereum Ecosystem, Applications, and Community

Bruce:

The Ethereum ecosystem includes not only the protocol layer but also applications and communities. Which applications do you think have explosive potential? What are your observations or thoughts?

Hsiao-Wei:

I personally find aspects like identity or SocialFi design interesting. Recently, I find the mini-programs on Farcaster intriguing. You can see what your friends are using and what games they are playing, and you can immediately share that on social platforms. These mini-programs can easily penetrate the lives of general users, but it will take some time for them to explode. In this area, innovation might quickly find user groups to use.

For larger projects, I wonder if there will be some interesting designs in finance in the next year or two. One part is DeFi, where I hope to see more innovative application cases. Another part that has been quite popular recently is RWA, which should also fall under the category of applications.

Bruce:

The Ethereum community is often formed spontaneously by local Ethereum enthusiasts and volunteers. However, manpower and funding can sometimes be unstable. From your perspective, do you think communities have more robust and sustainable development methods? Have you seen any good examples of communities doing well?

Hsiao-Wei:

I am also a co-founder of the Taipei Seminar and ETHTaipei. Many members of the community in Taiwan are from open-source communities; some may be members of Python PyCon or have a spirit of open-source software from other communities. So many people want to use the open-source spirit to work on Ethereum. March 19-21, 2018, Ethereum Sharding Workshop in Taipei In Taiwan, it’s interesting that everyone has no problem doing things for the public good. We work during the day and come together at night to dig holes, fill them, and get things done.

However, this behavior model requires continuously onboarding newcomers. How do you pass this spirit on? I think it’s very important to constantly onboard new people.

Because it’s an open-source community, individuals don’t have much ownership within the community; everyone does a bit. If no one is there, then that’s your job. If there’s no open-source background, it may be difficult to promote this model elsewhere.

There are many interesting designs in the Chinese-speaking community, each with a different style. Perhaps because Taiwan is relatively small, it seems that the people doing things are the same group. The diversity is lower than in other places. In larger areas, various groups spring up like mushrooms after rain, which I think is great.

Bruce:

Speaking of the diversity of communities, since 2018, you have been promoting various Ethereum communities, including the development of ETHTaipei. What advantages or challenges do Asian developer communities have? What role do we play in the global Ethereum system?

Hsiao-Wei:

I think there are many talented people among Asian developers. Asia's strength lies in product development and user experience. I feel that Europe and America may have a longer history of researching Ethereum. So, there are sometimes cultural differences between the two sides. I think it’s important to maintain unique characteristics, and better communication would be even better. For Ethereum to become a world computer, we must face global users and developers, so I hope to bridge the cultural gaps through communication.

Bruce:

I also feel the same way because there are many people in the Asia-Pacific region, and there are certain cultural similarities. Therefore, we tend to have more experience in user experience and application layers. From a broader perspective, what community-related work do you think lacks promotion or support? In other words, what areas are still undeveloped or relatively blank that everyone can push to make the entire Ethereum ecosystem better?

Hsiao-Wei:

In recent years, AI has made things very convenient, so reading English information doesn’t seem to be a big problem. Thanks to ETHPanda, which will soon provide Chinese summaries on Twitter, the response speed is very fast. However, I think the demand for translation may decrease in the coming years as everyone enjoys the benefits of AI. We need to bring in more new blood. I have been in the community for seven years, so I am truly an old-timer. How do we onboard more newcomers? I hope to promote this in student communities.

04. Work of the Ethereum Foundation

Bruce:

Now that you are the Co-Executive Director of the Ethereum Foundation, how has your daily work changed since transitioning from a researcher to this executive position? What new challenges have you encountered?

Hsiao-Wei:

The speed of change must be accepted. My previous main work and activities were primarily at the Consensus Specs level. I thought I could still come back to review PRs when I had nothing to do. However, in the past month, the core focus has shifted to management. At the same time, I need to closely monitor the latest developments in research. Challenges come from all directions.

I feel very honored and grateful to work alongside my partner Tomasz as Co-Executive Director. He is very proactive in collecting feedback from the community and translating that feedback into a broader roadmap for the EF. On this difficult path, I feel I am not alone.

Bruce:

I can relate to that. Tomasz often posts on Twitter, inviting people to contact him. I have also posted something, and the next day he immediately set up a group to connect with EF colleagues. I think that’s a very positive change.

In the past quarter or the past few months, the EF has made frequent adjustments in its organizational structure and personnel, including new external organizations like Etherealize. Can you introduce the background and goals of these changes?

Hsiao-Wei:

I can first introduce the general structure of the EF. First, we have a board of directors, then a management team, and below that, there are three business clusters, which are not strictly defined departments. The first is the Operations department, including Finance, HR, and Legal, which are necessary for the daily operations of a company or foundation. The second is the Development department, which, after some significant spin-offs, now primarily focuses on Protocol R&D, with the Research Team also in this development department. The third is the Eco Dev department, which is related to ecosystem development, and this part may include departments that issue grants like ESP and Next Billion Fellowship. Bruce:

Can you briefly introduce some of the external organizations related to the EF, such as Etherealize?

Hsiao-Wei:

If I remember correctly, Etherealize was established last year. The foundation and Vitalik provided some support during their early establishment. They mainly focus on activities on Wall Street in the U.S. This also reflects the shift in the world’s political landscape regarding crypto. Their establishment allows them to operate on Wall Street and do things that I think are very helpful for us, doing things that the EF may not directly execute. Their BD part can better face U.S. users and traditional financial institutions or large companies, which I think is great.

Bruce:

I just heard that the EF does not have a marketing team, right?

Hsiao-Wei:

Correct, we only do communication. As Josh Stark said, Ethereum doesn't have a BD team; Ethereum has one hundred BD teams. Other applications, whether Layer 2 or some Dapps, have their own BD teams, which are also like our BD teams.

We do not view Ethereum as a brand of our own. For example, on Twitter, we recently had some account changes. Since the beginning of this year, there is now an Ethereum account and an Ethereum Foundation account.

I think the separation is quite good because previously, whenever we wanted to post something using the Ethereum account, everyone seemed to think it represented the foundation, which was very limiting. Now, we can use this account to do BD-like things, helping the community understand what major events are happening. Overall, I think this separation is great, and both accounts can be utilized effectively.

Bruce:

This also brings a lot of convenience to our work. The official Ethereum account is a great source for us to translate and introduce content, allowing us to stay updated on the latest changes. It can provide better publicity for the community.

Earlier, you mentioned ESP, which is a very important part of the EF and has always played a role in promoting the development of the entire ecosystem. After this new structure, will there be any changes in the budget allocation design for the EF, and what areas will ESP focus on more?

Hsiao-Wei:

I just mentioned that we have Eco Dev and Development departments. The team leads of these departments have the capability to manage larger grants. ESP and other Eco Dev teams are part of this. For the major areas, one is AGR, which is not internal to ESP but is somewhat bound to it; this is the academic research part, which has a grant once a year. The application for this year should have ended and is currently under review.

In other areas, I think ESP serves as our front-facing representative for receiving inbound requests, so their choices are quite broad. They are not strictly defined in terms of how much budget to allocate for activities.

What the Ethereum Foundation wants to support is not always about grants; it’s not just about the financial aspect but also about the foundation’s shout-out (publicity).

When the foundation decides whether to grant support for activities, it does not always directly consider how many users the activity can bring us. Instead, it considers which grants can have a more significant impact, which activities or projects can only be supported by the foundation, and whether they are useful and can provide public goods that benefit everyone.

Bruce:

In summary, these activities or projects may be the only ones that the foundation is willing to support, and they are also necessary.

I have also seen that the EF is bringing in more external organizations to participate in decision-making, such as the recent EF Silviculture Society?

Hsiao-Wei:

They are somewhat like a council; we have selected some advisers who are very public-interest-oriented in different fields. We are very grateful to them, as they represent the spirit of Cypherpunk, as well as security and privacy. The EF Silviculture Society If we consider Ethereum as a business, having business advisers allows us to hear many opinions easily. How can we better listen to the voices of the community? That is the significance of this council's composition.

In other aspects, we have also been listening to the opinions of DeFi experts recently. The EF has also conducted many Twitter Spaces to engage in active discussions with successful projects in Layer 2 interoperability and Dapps. At the same time, leaders of external project teams also come to give seminars internally at the EF. We gather expert opinions and community feedback through these methods.

Bruce:

Some have suggested that the Ethereum Foundation should generate revenue through DeFi rather than continuing to sell tokens publicly. What do you think about the EF's funding operation model? What potential input channels can ensure the long-term sustainability of the foundation?

Hsiao-Wei:

This year, the foundation has started actively participating in DeFi. In early February, we deployed some ETH DeFi lending as a trial. The second phase is also in planning. We are evaluating whether to increase lending investments or explore more creative ways to utilize ETH assets. The second major area is staking. We are also exploring different staking options while considering whether EF's participation in staking can bring positive benefits. The third point is still in the exploratory stage, which is tokenization, such as participating in some RWA. Our participation mainly involves more conservative funds or funds that are beneficial for L1.

Bruce:

It seems there are still many new ideas and attempts in this direction. The community has also provided some feedback, including occasional sales of 100 ETH. Although it may not cause significant selling pressure, it could affect people's sentiments. What is the internal perspective of the foundation on this?

Hsiao-Wei:

How should I put it? For us, it’s a necessity to sell because we currently have two to three hundred people in the foundation, and about 75% of our expenses require fiat currency, while 25% is in crypto. So, the first point is that the foundation needs to operate, which requires asset rebalancing.

The second point is that the community may not fully understand our needs, so we will strengthen communication in this regard. One more thing to clarify is that we do not always sell at high points; many times, we sell at low points. When the price is low, people do not amplify that, and we do not have much design in this regard.

Bruce:

I have also seen community voices suggesting that sales could be done through OTC or other more discreet methods. What are your thoughts on that?

Hsiao-Wei:

Our main treasury is very open and transparent, so perhaps doing so in the short term could work, but the major treasury changes are visible to everyone.

Bruce:

Regarding the work of the Ethereum Foundation, some speculate that the EF may gradually fade out or dissolve after completing certain missions or stages, allowing the community to drive Ethereum's operation. What do you think about this direction? If that day really comes, how do you envision the ideal operation of the Ethereum community?

Hsiao-Wei:

First of all, this year is particularly important for the foundation. We have invested a lot of budget into the overall organizational transformation. Perhaps next year, if the foundation finds that there are more entities in the community that can replace the foundation's role, we can operate in a conservative and contracted manner. Interestingly, we need to adjust our strategy every year, and the themes the foundation focuses on may vary. Perhaps when the foundation focuses on the protocol, its presence will be stronger.

So, if in the future, the focus shifts to application layers or wallets, we may not need such a strong presence. This presence changes every year. Personally, I hope the foundation can constantly think about how to enable others to do what we are doing today. In the future, if there are things that only we can do, we may continue to do them. For example, coordination relies heavily on various changes in the future and support from the community. If the community can do well, the foundation can shift to more complex or less attended matters.

Bruce:

We are nearing the end of this interview. We have discussed a lot, including personal experiences, technical roadmaps, community, and the work of the foundation. Let’s wrap up with some lighter topics. Since our audience includes students and younger developers, as a "veteran" in Ethereum, what advice do you have for those just starting out or wanting to enter the field?

Hsiao-Wei:

I think many people say that choice is more important than effort, and I would add that you should choose places where you can have more choices. Ethereum has a very large and vibrant community, and many developers have paved the way ahead. I hope that new members joining can develop in this field, whether you are a developer, educator, product manager, or user; you can find mentors in the community to give you more choices.

Bruce:

Could you recommend some books or resources that are helpful for building Web3 thinking or personal growth?

Hsiao-Wei:

I often read Vitalik's blog posts. If the level of thinking is two-dimensional, you might want to see how someone thinking at a four-dimensional level thinks; that’s a higher level of thinking.

Recently, I have also been reading management books. One book is called "Principles," which outlines some overarching directions and principles. I think the important takeaway from this book is that you need to establish your own principles. His principles may not apply to me, but the key is to establish principles. If you can follow those principles, the things you do afterward may become much simpler.

Bruce:

In your spare time, do you have any favorite sports or other leisure activities?

Hsiao-Wei:

I’m quite a homebody; I mainly watch TV shows and play international chess, which are all static activities. But recently, my leisure time has significantly decreased due to a lot of work.

Bruce:

Thank you, Hsiao-Wei, for sharing today. We appreciate the interesting and deep thoughts you brought to everyone. Thank you all for watching or listening to this episode of ETHPanda Talk. Special thanks to Hashkey for providing us with a free venue. If you enjoy our content, please follow, share, and support us. See you next time!